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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
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    8,328
    A suppressor works real nice on a 16" too. Hell my full sized m14 is going to have one as soon as it gets out of jail.
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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,649
    Commando: Maximum overall weight with sling and optic and loaded five round mag--3 kilos.

    Dust cover but no forward assist.

    Pencil barrel from Faxon or Green Mountain. Valmet style flash hider, unless it's actually gonna wear a can.

    No swivels. Fixed sling bars fore and aft.

    Minimum dimension carbon fiber freefloat forend.

    Consider a fixed minimalist stock. No folders or telescoping gizmos. A1 length or a little shorter.

    Tier one BCG with whatever the latest greatest geewhiz coating is available.

    I like an A1 pistolgrip. But I was born long ago.
    Last edited by Papa; 02-19-2021 at 10:02 PM.
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    6,240
    I usually prefer an 18” with 308. But with a suppressor, I think 16” is acceptable for a rifle. As a pistol, minimum 12.5”

    Lightweight Magpul stock with a cheek riser. I wish there were more options for reasonable adjustable stocks but they are either too heavy and/or too expensive for this project IMO.

    Lots of quality triggers out there. A decent, robust trigger for as reasonable a price as can be had.

    A cheap birdcage flash hider - people are going to buy their own to match their suppressor or whatever style of comp they like.

    I personally like thin and trim hand guards. I have been pretty happy with Midwest Industries, been awhile since I’ve looked at other options out there.

    I like free floated barrels with the AR. I get the benefit of the fixed front sight post, but I’d trade that for the free floated barrel. Does someone make a decent fixed front sight post that attaches to a rail?

    I have liked the metal magpul folding sights (more reasonable), as well as Knights ($$$$), Midwest Industries has been good for me for decent quality and reasonable price.
    Brent Yamamoto
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  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,489
    1:11.25 twist rate?
    I was born for a storm, and a calm does not suit me. - Andrew Jackson

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,877
    For accuracy it’s going to come down to a couple of main components with the thirsd being assembly but someone who understand accuracy builds. I her you know a guy on that.

    The barrel is going to be everything on this one. It absolutely needs to be top tier. Profile needs to be as light as possible and still be threaded 5/8-24. Coopers Steyr Scout is something like .528 at the muzzle. Yours will have to be slightly fatter at the muzzle to accommodate a can/muzzle device. 16” for the rifle and 12.5 for the pistol. I have shot on a 500 on a rifle shilliuette range With an XP-100 in 308 and it can be done. I would suggest fluting to cut as much weight as possible just like they did on the Steyr Scout. That will add cost but we are not concerned with that. Brent is right on throwing a cheap birdcage flash hider on there as we will all replace it with the device of our choice to accommodate a can anyway. I have been going back and forth on twist rate but I am thinking something that will stabilize are least a 180 gr and maybe even a 200 gr. I am thinking it will want an adjustable gas block for the simple reason that none of us will shoot the same loads and this will help alleviate gassing problems. I will defer to ShopMonkey here.

    The other critical item is going to be the trigger. I prefer the Geissle in my AR15’s so it has to be that good or better. If there is a larger enhanced trigger guard the. Use it because some of us live in cold climates or have fat fingers.

    Upper and lowers all come from just a couple places anyway so pick a good one and let’s move one. No stupid looking Punisher logos please.

    BCG needs to be high quality and everything f properly staked and coated in whatever secret sauce you choose for reliability and ease of cleaning. Can. Everyone has an opinion. If something like the BCK Gunfighter is an option then that’s my choice.

    Stock. I love the a Magpul UBR but it weighs a ton compared to other options. My other go to stock is the Magpul ACS as I like the cheek weld it gives. Pistol grip can go a couple of ways. Either a POS GI one because like the muzzle device we are gonna throw it away anyway or the Ubitiquous Magpul MIAS or something from BCM. Pistol version inwoukd say SB2A

    Buffer tube, spring and buffer I know zero about so let ShopMonkey make that call.

    Forend: We have to keep overall weight down so carbon fiber or something else very light. It needs to be free float for accuracy and MLOCK rules the world these days. I am going to say QD swivel socket on the front if you decide to offer a sling mount as the rear will likely come with one and it offers options at no appreciable cost weight penalty.

    Sights. Leave the back up irons off since no one can agree on the best ones anyway. I will add MAGPUL Pros on mine. I would suggest leaving the scope mount and scope off since no one will agree on the best way to go anyway. Mine will likely get either a MI mount or I’ll use a Larue I already have.

    It needs to take MAGPUL Pmags. I would suggest shipping it with a 10 rounder so you don’t have to worry about states with mag restrictions and the 10 rounder is nice for when you are on the bench getting things dialed in.
    Last edited by Hasher; 02-20-2021 at 02:57 AM.
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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    385
    Ive gone down the short 12 inch 308 route in the past with a G3A4 clone.

    Pros:
    A LOT of fire power in a smallish package. Substantially more than a 556

    Shortening the barrel really dies make a noticeable difference in how a 762 rifle handles. More M4-like.

    If you shoot the right ammo, good accuracy at range.

    Cons:
    More ammo picky, in the context of accuracy. You MUST have a good barrel, and it does not shoot the heavier loads as well/accurate. At least mine didnt.

    Recoil increase. Not really a big deal. I fixed this by adding a (iirc) #17 locking piece.

    HOLY SHIT THAT FUCKER IS SO FUCKING LOUD! It was loud enough that I wished it was a 16inch gun sometimes.

    Handling the gun: fantastic
    Shooting the gun: bring your ear pro, for sure.

    As a side note, I loaded up some subs for it that were fun to shoot. I think they were 180 gr powder coated deals I made for it. Manually cycling the action could be a positive in this vein...

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    The New World
    Posts
    2,139
    If you're talking about a short AR10 platform, the barrel (and knowing the proper gas port size for the desired barrel length) is the heart of the gun.

    Proper gas port size is crucial for function and reliability. Mike Mihalski over at SOLGW is who I would reach out to to see if he has any data on it.
    Paul

    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,052
    Sounds like some serious gun porn is about to go down here.

    Looking forward to the outcome, my CC is wanted up and ready.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,390
    I am no expert, but I read a lot.

    I read/hear that the 7.62X51 ARs are tricky to build due to the lack of true common specification on parts. You'd need to know/be sure that the parts you want will fit the upper/lower you want.

    A couple companies (maybe only one) make what they call a small frame 7.62X51 AR. But, many of the parts out there won't fit them. The DPMS GII (no longer made) was a small frame 7.62X51 that was close enough in size to an AR15 that the first time I saw one I was about to walk by the table till the big mag well caught my eye/mind and made me stop to take a better look. Some nice things about it but again, no longer made and some parts can be difficult to get (the AR15 lower parts kits work, as do the buffer extensions and stocks.)

    The Recon model is light/handy. Mine's had some of the original stuff replaced. Funny, recoil on it is more than a .223, but less than my .300 BO AR15.

    Takes me awhile to identify the picture of the GII in the midst of all the AR15 pictures. The fat mag. helps though.


  10. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    790
    Magpul furniture is the easy choice and probably the smart option as it durable, reasonably priced and people will probably just trade it out anyway.

    Magpul did just come out with the PRS Lite that fits on a carbine tube that I think could be considered. Obviously they are not available yet so i say that in theory.

    mag1159-blk_magpul_prs_lite_stock_03.jpg

    I agree the hand guard should be small in diameter, around 13 inches long, probabaly M-lock, with a robust attachment method, light wieght but there should be a focus on proper ballance. I personally would carry a little more weight (within reason) to have a rifle that was balanced well as to settle in easier during non supported shooting. I would imagine some trial and error here.

    Hand guards are a dime a dozen any more but the LaRue Lat looks really promising, especially since its only $132 for the 13 inch option. I dont know any other other option out there with such a robust attachment.

    The stock and handguard listed above have well placed QD sockets for a sling, to me that is important. I also want a certain ballance when my rifles are slung.

    I too think a barrel optimized for 168s is a good idea.

    Triggers, maybe SI can bring theirs back as to give a statment to the legacy of what SI is. Right or wrong the entire rifle will in fact be judged by many by the trigger alone. For SI to make a statment with their own trigger would be a nice touch.

    Same with the muzzle device, didn't SI used to make one?

    Following SI tradition Id say the BCG should be NP3 coated as well as the SI trigger.

    I also like the nod to Christianity in many of the SI products. There are plenty of suitable names to choose from.

    Overall the SI personality will be represented here, with that the rifle needs to be fast, aggressive, trim yet strong, refined but savage.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

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