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  1. #131
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    8,942
    Sleep is definitely related to T. Low T is correlated with limited sleep. Good sleep is correlated with higher T. I noticed the same thing.

    Improved memory is another benefit to higher T. I actually wonder if itís not simply a factor of better sleep.
    LIVING > FIRED > JAIL > DEAD
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  2. #132
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,577
    so I just talked to my doc - he didn't tell me my T level with the second round of bloodwork in March (after I began TRT at 100 mg every other week).

    172.

    I dropped from 249 to 172 when I began TRT???

    I am going in to get poked again Friday to see if that was a fluke, or if increasing to 200 mg has helped.

    WTF, over?

  3. #133
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    47,397
    Quote Originally Posted by apamburn View Post
    so I just talked to my doc - he didn't tell me my T level with the second round of bloodwork in March (after I began TRT at 100 mg every other week).

    172.

    I dropped from 249 to 172 when I began TRT???

    I am going in to get poked again Friday to see if that was a fluke, or if increasing to 200 mg has helped.

    WTF, over?
    Not a doc, but 272 is very very low. How it would drop like that is a mystery...there are a few causes that I can think of but clearly, you need to be sticking more regularly...increase the dosage and pin at least twice a week. So 200 mg with 100 mg every three to four days...or like Zzooom suggests 110 mg every 4 days.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  4. #134
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE New Mexico
    Posts
    1,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Zzooomm View Post
    That's a pretty good total for 100mg weekly. Watch your PSA. Don't fear the estradiol. There are many factors that impact whether you should increase your dose. Free T (http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm) and lipid levels including particle counts and lastly your risk tolerance. Family history, APO E, body composition, etc. all play a role in determining where you should be. Don't think you need to to keep up with the anyone else!
    Thanks. The calculator is in line with my lab results. Lipid panel was good. Iím a pretty active guy, weights, KBs etc and have been doing Muay Thai/Jiu Jitsu classes for fun. PSA is higher than I like but it have hovered around the high twos for a couple years and I have had DREs by a urologist and Family Dr within the last two to three years.
    In all honesty I wanted to go to two hundred as a WANT much more than a NEED.
    I appreciate you taking the time to discuss with me and all of us here. Sean
    Fuck Sniffy and Blowy. Never my president

  5. #135
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by apamburn View Post
    so I just talked to my doc - he didn't tell me my T level with the second round of bloodwork in March (after I began TRT at 100 mg every other week).

    172.

    I dropped from 249 to 172 when I began TRT???

    I am going in to get poked again Friday to see if that was a fluke, or if increasing to 200 mg has helped.

    WTF, over?
    So your infrequent dosing has suppressed your endogenous production and left you horribly low. He really is clueless. Sorry. No SHBG means no way to calculate free t. Ask him what the half-life of the test cyp your are taking is!

    Go to .55 ml every 4 days. Retest and calculate your free T in 4 weeks or after 7 injection cycles. All those half-lives stack up giving you a fairly steady state. Never use total test levels to determine therapy. The normal range for who? The lab reference interval? OK. Take 100,000 testosterone samples. Now, take two SD from the mean. There is your reference interval. Made up of old sick people. There is a fair amount of research on receptor affinity and efficacy these days. There are a number of reasons numbers may need to be significantly higher than reference intervals. Sometimes you have to treat the client and not their number!

  6. #136
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Zzooomm View Post
    So your infrequent dosing has suppressed your endogenous production and left you horribly low. He really is clueless. Sorry. No SHBG means no way to calculate free t. Ask him what the half-life of the test cyp your are taking is!

    Go to .55 ml every 4 days. Retest and calculate your free T in 4 weeks or after 7 injection cycles. All those half-lives stack up giving you a fairly steady state. Never use total test levels to determine therapy. The normal range for who? The lab reference interval? OK. Take 100,000 testosterone samples. Now, take two SD from the mean. There is your reference interval. Made up of old sick people. There is a fair amount of research on receptor affinity and efficacy these days. There are a number of reasons numbers may need to be significantly higher than reference intervals. Sometimes you have to treat the client and not their number!
    Got it, thanks so much again.

    I am getting blood drawn at the bottom of my t level right before I take my next dose, so hopefully it's not truly that low normally. I think the every other week interval has my levels really fluctuating.

    This week when I see him I'm going to request SHBG levels be added to my lab, more frequent injections, and ask him to calculate my free testosterone - we can base our decisions on that.

    Are there any clinical sources I can point him to (and I can study myself)?

  7. #137
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by apamburn View Post
    Got it, thanks so much again.

    Are there any clinical sources I can point him to (and I can study myself)?
    Years of experience and research have led me to where I am today. My practice has evolved for sure. Research is very specific and often extremely nuanced providing bits and pieces of info when combined have now defined how I practice. Studies rarely answer big questions!

  8. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    829
    apamburn, you ever had your thyroid function checked? I'm talking free t3, not just TSH. Until I got my thyroid right my T went up zero while taking T. Just a thought.

  9. #139
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,577
    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    apamburn, you ever had your thyroid function checked? I'm talking free t3, not just TSH. Until I got my thyroid right my T went up zero while taking T. Just a thought.
    I haven't, but maybe worth looking into?

  10. #140
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,577
    K I just got back from lunch with my doc.

    I brought up SHBG and calculating free T. It was something he was totally unfamiliar with and was reluctant / didn't commit to add it to my labs.

    I also brought up increasing interval and / or dosage.

    He responded to both with stating that really the range of acceptable T levels is so wide that it's hard to say what is "normal" and he treats based on presence or absence of symptoms.

    He agreed that, depending on today's blood work, we may increase interval.

    And I decided that I'm going to be making an appointment with another doc.

    I'll continue to go to lunch with the guy and use him as my GP, might even accept his invitation to join him on a turkey hunt. But I won't be relying him for T treatment moving forward.

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