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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    NWFL
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    16,370
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    Greg,

    ..... For example the M14 needs to stay with in a pressure envelope in order to not bend op rods. So that takes some of the higher end hunting ammo and such off the table and not a big deal. ................
    Most interesting remark and thanks for making it.
    I think you are right in that the new high speed loads should not be used in a 7.62x51 M14 action. But then that is true of most semiauto systems that do not have an adjustable system. A garand with an adjustable gas port can be used with just about any load.
    . We all know how susceptible the M1 Garand operating rod is to high port pressures and bending. I know the gas operation system of the M14 is not similar to that of Garand and so I looked it up because I have a commercial copy of the M14.
    Short version can happen with the M14, but less likely.

    To help answer the question, I turned to Hodgdon's propellant guru Ron Reiber and Hornady's lead cartridge design engineer, and vintage rifle savant, Dave Emary. I also relied heavily on Glen Zediker's publication Reloading for the Match M14. Zediker is known as an early ambassador for using accurized M16s in service rifle competition, but he is vastly experienced with and still a proponent of the M14/M1A.
    In short, the answer to the reader's question is that while propellant choice and charge caveats do apply to the M1A, the M1A is much less susceptible to damage than the M1 Garand.
    Why? Emary explained it this way: "The M1A op rod is only about 40 percent as long as the Garand, which is the biggest reason. It's more of a short-stroke piston design and only has to travel about three-quarters inch before it begins venting gas. The Garand's op rod has to travel at least twice that far before it begins to vent. The M1A has a much more forgiving system, with less of a weak link." http://www.rifleshootermag.com/edito...e-rifle/83672#

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    2,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    Greg,

    One thing I haven't looked into yet is how finicky the AR10 is with ammo. For example the M14 needs to stay with in a pressure envelope in order to not bend op rods. So that takes some of the higher end hunting ammo and such off the table and not a big deal. The AR10 shouldn't have that problem.
    Correct, the large frame AR platform is not nearly so picky with ammo as the M1a/M14/Garand system, and unlike that older platform, you can't really hurt a big AR with hotter loads unless things get really severe (like blowing up the gun sort of stuff). Do be aware though that mil-spec 7.62 is generally weaker than commercial 308, so it's best to tune the gun to run with something like M80 ball if you plan to use both ammo specs. Then the worst thing that happens is the hotter loads might be a bit overgassed, but will run fine.

    Also be aware though that most large frame 308 ARs seem to be pretty overgassed from the factory even for mil-spec 7.62, which means they can sometimes tear off case rims and malfunction with 308. The fixes are pretty straightforward, but they are something I'd count on needing to do on any 308 AR I bought. Some of the DPMS rifles, especially the G2, have been pretty bad about that in some examples.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    2,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    I considered 6.8 so I could use the same mags and lower but I don't like that idea.
    Just something to be aware of, if you ever do try one (and just one more reason why you probably don't want one) - both the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel need their own cartridge-specific mags to work right. Most of the feed issues I hear about when people try either cartridge are from trying to use 5.56 mags. It's like trying to shoot 40 S&W through 9mm Glock mags.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    16,370
    Quote Originally Posted by Yondering View Post
    Just something to be aware of, if you ever do try one (and just one more reason why you probably don't want one) - both the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel need their own cartridge-specific mags to work right. Most of the feed issues I hear about when people try either cartridge are from trying to use 5.56 mags. It's like trying to shoot 40 S&W through 9mm Glock mags.
    I have found that a low capacity 6.5 g mag will feed 7.62x39 which is not surprising since their measurements are so similar.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    499
    Another vote for M1A Scout. I’ve thinking of picking one up as well. The real question is which optic...if any?

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South-Central Idaho
    Posts
    3,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Another vote for M1A Scout. I’ve thinking of picking one up as well. The real question is which optic...if any?
    The Scout is very cool. My first semiauto 308 was a M1A Socom. I’ve always regretted selling it. I’ve had about all of the semiauto 308s. I currently have a couple of AR10s. Like Gabe, I’m not sure I see the point of having them but I like them. The 308 can certainly do things a 300 Blk or AK can’t do. It’s just a question of whether one wants or needs a tool to do those things. If I’m honest, I can’t see much purpose for a semiauto 308 in my life. These days, if I’m shooting beyond carbine distances, it’s with a bolt gun...usually in a caliber is other than 308. I occasionally wonder why I keep the 308s. Mostly I have them because I have a small mountain of ammo they could eat.
    Last edited by DogDoc; 12-03-2018 at 09:10 PM.
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  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,894
    I used to love the caliber debates. Now it's all caliber - schmaliber to me.
    Breakfast cereal is just dog food for people
    "Zen? Meh! Who needs it? All that effort to achieve nothingness and what do you got? Bupkis!"

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Another vote for M1A Scout. I’ve thinking of picking one up as well. The real question is which optic...if any?
    I'd put the oldschool aimpoint on it and a micro on the AR
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    211
    I have the SCAR 17 and love the platform. I did the SI sniper classes with it and just had a 1-4x on top. It was very accurate and I was getting reliable body shots from the 4 power to about 850 yds. With a better scope the 1000 yd shots would have been not a problem. It is very handy and light, but also expensive. The controls are very AR like, however, it has the reciprocating charging handle, which I don't mind since I had a lot of AK time. It has a folding stock, piston driven, and a 16 inch barrel. It has a non-standard recoil impulse and supposedly hard on scopes.

    It is a very nice DMR type 308 rifle. I have a 1-8x for it, but have not shot it yet in that configuration.
    Don Marbach
    Scottsdale, AZ

    "Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge"

    Austin 'Dusty' Miller, the quote on the Eagle & Fledgling statue at the U.S. Air Force Academy

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    651
    Since it has been brought up. I think the 6.5 Grendel used as your DMR rifle gives you everything the 308 does at extended ranges without the big AR10 size package. Ammo is easy to get on line or most big box stores. Use metal mags for the Grendel and MagPul's for the 5.56. Just build a quality upper and use an AR15 lower you already have. With a quality barrel and build you have a .5 to .75 MOA rifle, with reasonably priced factory ammo.

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