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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    MS
    Posts
    525
    1/2 second.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    Force Science Institute studies indicate that it's at or under the threshold of average human reaction time to new input: .25 seconds.

    This is why we see some shot in the back. They were facing front when the shooter - police officers a lot of the times - starts the shot and then turn away. Shooter cannot over-ride the commit in time because of the reaction lag, that infamous OODA loop. Shot goes off and it goes to trial. They have to bring in the studies as evidence to work it out.
    That´s why I am receiving their newsletter.
    In any case you need to defend yourself in court for an incident involving force, you will most likely be judged by someone without any tactical understanding.
    As some answers have shown, even tactically trained persons can underestimate certain abilities.
    Having empiric studies on your side to show how and why your actions were justified is priceless.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,953
    Half-second or less.


    Human beings aren’t the top of the food chain because we’re just so clever. We’re there because deep inside we are the most homicidal animal on the planet, and sometimes that animal isn’t buried all that deep.

    "Last edited by Boetman; 10-21-2015 at 01:54 PM. Reason: confuckulated "

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NE Illinois
    Posts
    1,067
    average person...one second.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,489
    1/2 second
    "The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail...the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation" Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper

    "When Your Time Comes To Die. Be Not Like Those Whose Hearts Are Filled With Fear Of Death. So When Their Time Comes They Weep And Pray For A Little More Time To Live Their Lives Over Again In A Different Way.
    SING YOUR DEATH SONG AND DIE LIKE A HERO GOING HOME" Tecumseh

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Mid-Michigan
    Posts
    163
    .25 seconds.....as previously stated, FS has TONS of research on this stuff. And if you ever get the chance to go to their analyst certification course...do it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You manage things. You LEAD people.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Highland IL
    Posts
    1,214
    Easily 1/4 second. I've played enough ball to know that athletic guys can turn on a dime faster than you can blink.
    "Charles, I shan't trust you aboard my ship, unless I carry you a prisoner; for I shall have you plotting with my men, knock me on the head and run away with my ship a-pirating."

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    447
    ANSWER: Average is .54 of a second...Fastest time during the study was .37 (with gun in hand and only inadvertently pointing it at the officer)

    In a second study: They wanted the subjects to directly point the weapon at the officer and discharge it during the turn)
    Average time: .89 of a second Fastest: .50 of a second. They also even broke it down from start of movement to where the subject's back started to drop (Drop off) to turn. That occurred in AVG .48 sec with the fastest being .40. From the "drop off" to full square back it was .42 with the fastest being .10

    Also yes, As a few brought it up this stuff is from Force Science. I've followed them for years have been lucky enough to attend their certification class and now just completed their Advanced Specialist Program where I read more big words than I ever knew existed. If you are preparing for an armed encounter or le you need to get signed up for their newsletter and read their stuff. It's not restricted and is open information out there. Here's the main thing. It's science and it can be replicated. It isn't just Joe Schmucatelly saying this way of training is the best because my splits or grouping was really good. Gabe was discussion core skills and mentioned that timing is everything. This stuff just scientifically proves that and lawyers can't argue with science.

    So back to where I was going with this. We've all seen the media etc talk about well they shot the guy in the back etc. We have all heard that story. Well this is why. Before we can drop the hammer, shithead has already turned fire and running away. When the decision was made to pull the trigger, dude was doing something we really didn't like. By the time all the info got down to the trigger finger and the mechanical time of pulling the trigger was completed. Dude was already thinking he was on his way home to smoke some crack and beat his woman.

    Again, this only shithead's movement time. It is the OODA principle and why it is so important to get the "F" off the "X." The Hooplehead doesn't have time to readjust his aim once he sends the "program" downstairs from his pea brain to his body to turn/shoot. We need to add decision/reaction time to our movement time. Even if we have our pistol drawn and aimed in when we see hooplehead's movement start its a tie at best. Which we always see in Force-on-Force. That's why the sooner we can detect anticipate the movement (and I am simply talking if standing there outside 5 feet) our default has to be to move. Then we cause hooplehead to have to build in the extra reaction time and start his process all over again. Back to Boyd's principle of OODA.

    Hope I'm not boring you guys with all this stuff. This is why Gabe's programs have so much credence for me, I would say his stuff is backed up by science.

    A lot of you were right on with the time, which I wouldn't expect any less with the Tribe.
    Kamp
    Suarez International Tier 1 Instructor
    UTM Master Instructor Training Provider and Independent Dealer
    Kamp's Suarez International Training Schedule
    (and no, unfortunately it isn't the summer camp for our kids we all want to send them to)
    Pacific Tactical Website
    Facebook
    Twitter: @pacifictactical

    "Progress comes to those who train and train; reliance on secret techniques will get you nowhere."
    Morihei Ueshiba

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    447
    #2 On average,How long does it take the average trained person with a standard Glock trigger to fire 17 rounds? No worrying about aiming just firing as fast as they can?
    Kamp
    Suarez International Tier 1 Instructor
    UTM Master Instructor Training Provider and Independent Dealer
    Kamp's Suarez International Training Schedule
    (and no, unfortunately it isn't the summer camp for our kids we all want to send them to)
    Pacific Tactical Website
    Facebook
    Twitter: @pacifictactical

    "Progress comes to those who train and train; reliance on secret techniques will get you nowhere."
    Morihei Ueshiba

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    south africa
    Posts
    744
    About 4 seconds, maybe three if has a bit of 'experience'. Also not sure about Glock Triggers. With my HS/XD 9, sure I can put 15 down range below 5 seconds, more to four.
    If my time must come, let it be when I am protecting my loved ones. Let there be a pile of brass scattered around me and a pile of my enemies at my feet. Let my slides be locked open on empty mags and my knife broken. Let my face be bloody from biting the throat of my last foe and let me be wearing a necklace of fresh ears. Take me to Your Heavens and let me hear the laughter of my children as they reenact the fight and I will rest peacefully.- Edelweiss.

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