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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    2,592

    Default AAR - FoF Gunfighting in Columbia with Randy Harris

    We just got done with a Force on Force Gunfighting class by Randy Harris in Columbia, SC. There were four "normal" students in the class, plus JD Lester and myself. Everyone was well prepared for the class, showing up with all of the required equipment. As usual, copies of Austrian service pistols were the most common. There was also one Airsoft pistol that looked like a Sigma copy. At the beginning of the class, everyone was having problems with their Airsoft pistols. As the class went on, these problems seemed to work themselves out. I added extra silicone oil to the magazines of my Airsoft pistols, and they ran fine after that.

    I have taken this class before, but once again found it very informative. As usual, we started out with the Matt Dillon drill, which showed everyone the foolishness of "stand and deliver" gunfighting. We then explored getting off the X to various angles, multiple adversary problems, gun vs knife, scenarios, etc.

    The class location has a long road that we used to good effect for the scenarios. Some panhandlers were just panhandlers. Others were not. The scenarios illustrated why we need to be able to move to different angles: obstacles may prevent us from moving in our favorite direction. The students had listened carefully to Randy's PESTS EAT FAST lecture, and when JD and I were working together as a "robbery team", we usually could not make them fall for becoming trapped between us. This was a hard crowd: we collected 0 wallets during this scenario and were shot quite a few times.

    JD and I also acted out a scenario I use in my CWP classes: two dudes are fighting, and you have no idea how it started. This serves as a cautionary tale about getting involved in other people's problems. One Good Samaritan who decided to help me as JD was beating on me got slashed by JD, then shot by me after he shot at my "cousin" (JD). I'm fairly confident this was not the outcome he was hoping for.

    The vehicle scenario illustrated the importance of not getting sucked in. The one female student in the class looked at this scenario, and decided to go back into the "store" to get some help in dealing with the creepy guy hanging out next to her car (JD). A perfectly valid choice on her part. Thanks to various distractions, I was able to sneak up on another student, unnoticed, until I stuck a gun in his ribs. This was where the need for the hand-to-hand skills that we teach in Zero to Five became very apparent.

    Overall, I think this class shows the logical progression of going from Combat Pistol Marksmanship to Close Range Gunfighting to FoF Gunfighting to 0-5 Gunfighting. The students in this class already had a good basis of the fundamentals, now they experienced how to apply those when the targets are shooting back and maneuvering against you. As one student noted: "In CRG, I learned that I had to get off the X. In this class I learned how fast I have to get off the X."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC for refit
    Posts
    1,349
    It was great to take this class again and get a refresher for the "Mental Rolodex" with all of the scenarios and the knowledge that Randy passed on to us during the class.

    It was great to see a couple of familiar faces and meet some new people to train with as well.

    v/r

    JD

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    14
    I will chime in as one of the "normal" students that Alex referred to above. The class was time and money well spent.

    For me, this class filled a gap. My wife and I have done the red dot combat class which was great. That was a great class for running the gun, point shooting as well as accurate shots where trigger pull are required. Hitting steel at 100 yrds was a confidence builder. I have also done some Krav Maga as well and this Force on Force was perfect for bridging the gap between the aimed shots and hand to hand.

    I did not have a feel for how fast the action happens, how fast I could realistically draw and if I would get hit or be hit if a close up encounter broke out where you need to draw quickly. Ultimately, when the timer came out, the action was over in two seconds or less.

    The progression of the class was great to demonstrate that you can not stand in place and win the fight. The air soft pellets can hurt enough to make you not want to get hit but let you know when you have. Moving off the "X" was key and there were tons of opportunity to put it in play and figure out the pros and cons of moving in every direction. We practiced stacking multiple assailants and observing the clues that something was likely. We did a lot of practice drills and had the opportunity to ask as many questions and setup as many scenarios as we wanted. Having almost a 1 to 1 instructor ratio turned out to be phenomenal. I even made a comment to Randy about having to take a head shot on someone if they were holding a loved one. Randy quickly grabbed JD and gave me the opportunity to put a couple in his face to see how easy it can be. There just not a lot of opportunities to shoot your friends in the face. JD was a great sport being the test dummy on which Randy demoed his moves and we sure traded some shots. I look forward to doing some future classes with JD and appreciate Alex hosting us.

    In the end it was reiterated now more than ever that I do not want to get in a situation that results in having to use this training. Further, the more I learn, the more I learn what I do not know. Overall I could not be more pleased with the instruction and the class. Suarez instructors are a class act. Thank you for the service that you are providing.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
    Posts
    3,499
    Thanks guys, I'll try to get some pics up in the next day or so.

    DLJ mentions a timer...I knew Alex probably had a shot timer and so I just started running a timer set at 3 seconds on the "gunfights" to see how long the fights actually took. After all we talk about the "rule of 3s"...3 seconds, 3 yards, 3 steps, etc, and I thought we might actually plug that in while they were doing some drills to see if that played out.....Interestingly enough, the 3 second buzzer usually sounded AFTER it was well over. In fact it was more like 2 to 2.5 seconds that it was taking for them to get off the X and score 2 to 4 hits on the bad guy....close range pistol gunfights just do not last very long before someone gets hit a lot.

    As someone mentioned in class..."I knew from CRG that I needed to move...now I know how FAST I need to move."
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit Instructor
    Glock Factory Certified Armorer
    IDPA Master Class SSP, ESP,CDP, CCP, BUG, CO
    Gung Ho Chuan Association

    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    2,592
    Quote Originally Posted by DLJ View Post
    Overall I could not be more pleased with the instruction and the class. Suarez instructors are a class act. Thank you for the service that you are providing.
    Thank you! I'm happy to hear you learned a lot. It was a pleasure training with you.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC for refit
    Posts
    1,349
    Great gunfights all around.
    This is one class that you really should try to take on an annual basis.
    It brings reality and puts it right in your face and other body parts in an easy to understand 6mm message. I am pretty sure everyone got shot in most of the drills. One thing that I noted in this class all of the students had prior SI training either CRG , CPM, or a red dot pistol course, when I did a after class assessment once I got home I had 3 hits in my left hand and 12 that left marks on my left and right arms, everything else was in the face or golden triangle. This was from several hundred gun fights over a two day period.
    That being said an SI medical class should be on the short list also.

    On timers : Randy shot me in the face in under a second... I really can't add anything else to to that.

    Like I said previously it was great to see familiar faces and meet new people as well.....and shoot them, and get shot by them.
    This was a great weekend of training.

    Stay Safe...Be Dangerous

    v/r

    JD

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