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Cotton Hill
02-21-2005, 03:43 PM
My son's friend is taking this Muay Thai kickboxing now and I'd like some opinions on if it works in a real fight. Maybe I'll start taking it. I have experience in other fighting styles. USMC's LINE fighting system and 4th DAN in Judo.
I don't care about Tae Bo or girly "cardio kickboxing". I want to know if this Muay Thai will work in a real 1 on 1 street fight. As much as I am a good fighter I need something more than submission fighting (Judo) or fighting to kill a soldier (USMC).

RES
02-21-2005, 05:37 PM
Cotton Hill:

Hi there!

Muay Thai, like any other system, is only as good as the person from whom you learn. More than being concerned about "which system is best", determine if you like the instructor himself. Watch some classes, ask some question (after class, of course), ask if you can take a few trial classes, and get a feel of the instructor.

Cotton Hill
02-21-2005, 05:49 PM
Yeah. I know who the instructor is (good reputation). I saw a few classes. Looks physically demanding. But my son's buddy says it's worth it for the self defense skills (he's 24). I guess what I'm asking is... is Muay Thai a good style to learn for striking fighting skills? I'm proficient in grappling but not so much at boxing and legwork.

RES
02-21-2005, 06:02 PM
... is Muay Thai a good style to learn for striking fighting skills?

Yeah, it is.

Decado
02-21-2005, 06:22 PM
IMHO it is one of the best striking arts out there. I feel very fortuante to have started my MA training in Muay Thai.

Decado

michael
02-21-2005, 06:48 PM
If the instructor is good and the quality of the training is high, then it is a great art to learn. It will also give you a tremendous amount of physical conditioning. Supplement it with seminars as much as you can by known instructors like Gabe, Dimitri, Quinn, etc.

Skpotamus
02-21-2005, 09:38 PM
Muay Thai is one of the few styles out there that are constantly being refined in fighting situations. By fighting skilled opponents on a regular basis, the "fluff" moves get removed, and the moves that remain fit you as a fighter. It's kind of unfair to call it an art as it's a fighting sport, that you can use for self defense. Any and all training done in Muay thai should be done in a gym atmosphere, containing pad work, bad work, partner drills and sparring, anything less takes away from it's effectiveness as a physical combat art.

I personally have used my Muay Thai skills in fights (outside of the ring) before with great success. The emphasis on low kicking, clinch skills, knees and elbows, as well as development of personal physical attributes makes it a great style for physical self defense IMHO, as well as getting you in really great shape.

As a self defense system it lacks in the grappling department (clinch only, no groundfighting per se), the use of gloves can be a minor hindrance if you decide to use open hand strikes instead of punches (punches don't work quite as well without gloves and wraps), but I find elbows and knees work well in punching range, and farther out kicking works even better for me.

It also doesn't make any reference to a self defense mindset, such as awareness, avoidance of dangerous situations, situational drills, multiple attackers, or weapons defenses (or uses).

I do think that studying Muay Thai alone will leave you better off than studying any other art individually, however you should seek to supplement your self defense training with some firearms training and knife work, and you can explore situational drills and awareness on your own with friends and family.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
02-22-2005, 12:09 AM
Woof All:

In addition to the points already made I would add that MT is a ring sport offshoot of the Thai military weaponry system of "Krabi Krabong". KK's weapons are single and double sword/stick, staff/spear, and the nasty mai sowks (pronounced "my socks"-- they are like tonfas but are much more vicious).

As a military system, picture several thousand peasants howling across the battlefield in a primal bloodlust blitzkrieg with whirring blender motions.

The distinctive striking of MT is a result of kicking/kneeing during battle using single/double sword and the elbows are a result of the mai sowks.

but I digress,
Crafty Dog/Marc

RES
02-22-2005, 07:36 AM
...but I digress...

Digression of the historical type is always welcome. :cool:

Skpotamus
02-22-2005, 09:49 AM
digress away, I wouldn't mind hearing more about Krabi Krabong from a knowledgable source, either in this thread or on a seperate one.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
02-22-2005, 07:33 PM
Woof:

Now, the hook is craftily set ;-) , , ,

http://dogbrothers.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=42

There is a brief clip to click on.

Here is an article by Arlan "Salty Dog" Sanford on KK, the man most responsible for bringing KK to the Dog Brothers.

It also should be noted that KK is part of the curriculum at the Inosanto Academy (my principal source of training) and that in the system which I have founded, Dog Brothers Martial Arts, we blend Kali and KK. The result we call "Los Triques" (the 3 Ks-- get it? This is my idea of humor.)

Woof,
Crafty Dog
================

Krabi Krabong by Arlan "Salty Dog" Sanford

One of the great things about being involved with Dog Brothers has been the ongoing search for way to better our fighting. As each of us looked to improve our fighting the others looked for ways to counter and prevail. It may have been a training technique like throwing the tire or studying other martial arts like the Brazilian jiu-jitsu. This diversity among the fighters I think lead to a real expansion in style that is not easily matched in most systems.

Being separated by both distance and availability of training, I felt that I needed to find something to counter the rapidly growing grappling skills of the other fighters. With several years training in Muay Thai, I felt I had the tools to work towards controlling close-in fighting space, but not the application. I had heard of a Thai weapons arts called Krabi Krabong and was finally able to connect with Ajarn Jason Webster of Dallas, Texas. Jason had trained at the Buddhai Swan Sword Fighting Institute in Bangkok, Thailand. He was the first foreigner to graduate from the school with the gold sash or Ajarn certification. Jason was familiar with Dog Brothers and was able to add to my fighting style without abandoning what I already used.

Krabi Krabong has a long and distinguished history in Thailand. The art is the forerunner of Muay Thai and is still practiced by the Thai military and supported by the king and queen. Training in Krabi Krabong includes weapons, saber, long staff, long spear, short spear, double sword, shields, and mai sowks. One of the last remaining schools of Krabi Krabong was Buddhai Swan. It was run by Ajarn Masaman Samai, who died in 1998.

I trained at Buddhai Swan for several years. I received my gold sash in 1996. In all of my training at Buddhai Swan we trained for six to eight hours a day, six days a week. Learning both the fighting aspects and the dancing that is a very important part of Krabi Krabong. We would train in a different weapon each day, putting them all together in the evenings. We would start the day with Buddhist chants and proceed to doing the set drills adding more free-form as we went. Occasionally we would look at the particular strengths and weaknesses of each weapon and how they related to each other.

The weapons were taught in a series of drills that varied little from weapon to weapon, thus allowing you to train in many weapons and become proficient without becoming confused. We started with double swords and then moved on to the other weapons. As you train, you might find that you body style or temperament attracts you to a certain weapon and more of your energy goes to that training. However, someone trained in Krabi Krabong should be able to fight with any weapon as well as empty-handed.

My main focus was training in the single and double swords with an eye towards application and the Dog Brother fights. One of my main attractions to Krabi Krabong was its ability to integrate empty-hand and kicking techniques into the weapons training. Though often professed by many arts, it seldom worked. Krabi Kabrong certainly has the most integrated system I've seen. A lot of emphasis was placed on kicking in a weapons fight both as an attack and as a counter. Timing is stressed, when do you kick, can you kick safely, where do you kick, can you kick without leaving yourself open to a counter. As we progressed we added knees, elbows and empty-hands.

Much of the emphasis was also placed on fighting multiple opponents. On a battle field, you could not assume you would be facing only one opponent. You could be fighting someone in back, in front, or off to the side. Many of the drills involve training to step, finish, move, finish, often using your opponent as a shield against his comrades. We worked numerous foot-work drills that included side-stepping, stepping over, around or behind your opponent. Foot-work when there were several opponents, foot-work to chase someone down, foot-work for when you were being chased down.

I also enjoyed the long weapons, staff and spear. The Krabi Krabong style is still a closer style even with a longer weapon, allowing kicks to be used as well as sweeps and other empty-hand techniques.

My favorite weapon was the mai sowks (wooden elbows). Eighteen inch long pieces of wood with double handles that were strapped to your arms. The mai sowks were developed for use against longer weapons but work well at all ranges. Much of what you see in traditional Muay Thai hand positioning, blocking, and stance come from the mai sowks. The mai sowks are a truly formidable weapon able to defend at distance and awesome in close with punches, elbows, slaps, hooks with the handles, and the ability to slide out to your hands and be used as clubs.

Krabi krabong has added immeasurably to my fighting style. I have been able to add kicking to my fighting and do so confident that it will work. The Thai attitude has also been a plus. Forward with all until the job is done.

I have found that training has worked, ambidexterity, power and movement. I feel any weapon in either hand has the potential to do damage as do legs, knees, elbows and hands.

Woof,
Ajarn Arlan "Salty Dog" Sanford

RES
02-23-2005, 01:02 AM
The result we call "Los Triques" (the 3 Ks-- get it? This is my idea of humor.)

Well... at least you didn't decide to call it "KKK"! :D

(Now that's MY idea of humor!)

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
02-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Actually in Filipino history there is a KKK (Karaungan, Katipatan and , , ,I forget) a Filipino independence movement of illustrious history, but yes, in the American context, this might not be the message received ;)

Coops
02-23-2005, 03:37 PM
Cotton Hill

Before we start digressing into various fighting skills, and then point shooting (that ALWAYS turns up) I would like to add:

I have my tricks to end a fight quickly and suddenly. Everyone here has the same plan.

I discussed this with a friend and Thai boxer over this side of the pond years ago. His take on it was that, if he knew the fight was on, he would drive in with leg kicks. Endex - that's it.

Athletic skills apart, when it comes down to it you should use what you have. I have always been brought up on palm strikes etc, but I can really see that a sudden and brutal onslaught of thigh kicks might sway the fight:~)

All I'm saying is that, regardless of your skill in whatever MA, you better have a single technique which will get your butt out ouf the mire.

Martin

Ninor
02-23-2005, 09:07 PM
Coops,

I agree with your premise...everyone does need one sure fire technique they can count on when the chips are down (mine is the elbow...never missed a knockout with one yet).

Having said that I'd put my money on your palm heels as opposed to your mates leg kicks. A lot of fights happen in nightclubs because in nightclubs we have all the necessary ingredients for a fight i.e. rednecks, (you call them chavs :o ) alcohol and women. On a crowded dance floor (where most fights break out) he's going to have a hard time.

Another common place is parking lots during disputes over parking spaces. You get out of your car you just parked in the space he thinks was his and you're in between two cars trying leg kicks?

What about when the sidewalks...sorry mate, footpaths are wet and/or icy...I'd rather keep both feet flat on the floor and palm heel before I'd attempt the leg kick.

Back to the nightclub...the music is so damned loud normally the n'ere do well is RIGHT UP in your face and on your toes...palm heels, elbows, head butts yep, leg kicks? I'm not so sure.

When I got round London (and I don't know if it's still the fashion) the guys would wear those long woolen overcoats down to below their knees. Those things take the sting right out of leg kicks when they're flapping about.

I could go on but you get the idea. My last ditch technique is always something I can do in a plethora of situations not just when I have sufficient range and space to launch a leg kick.

Look at that fight in the pizza parlour again...if our vic had a clue a palm heel could most certainly have been used...thai kick? hmmmmm

n

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
02-23-2005, 10:10 PM
Woof All:

My thinking is that when all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. My preference is to have a well-rounded tool box.

Crafty Dog/Marc

RES
02-24-2005, 01:56 AM
My thinking is that when all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. My preference is to have a well-rounded tool box.

Absolutely.

The one real problem with the tool box, is that the awareness, situational creativity, and skill to immediately employ any one of a number of techniques appropriately and instantly, is something which requires a great deal of experience and training to attain. As much as I dislike the notion of "instant gratification", some folks, frankly, have neither the time nor inclination to train to that level; for them, their only recourse is a default response which (as the premise goes) works most of the time.

(I can't wait for this statement to be misconstrued.)

Jujutsuka
02-28-2005, 12:20 PM
MT - the skills you learn while practicing this sport are effective in rl. Every serious competitor who trains for any reality-type based fighting sport (UFC, PRIDE, KotK, etc) is well versed in MT because of it's effectiveness.
That being said, is *any* art the "end-all-be-all" of martial training? No. Is this a good place to start, definately. Remember that what you will be learning is strikes. So if this is your only training, your only conditioned response would be strikes (Re-insert hammer/nail analogy here).
MT training has no emphasis on grappling, weapons, or situational awareness. It is ring and competition focused.
Learn what you can and fill in the holes where you find them.
Enjoy yourself too...no one ever mentions that :P

Gabriel Suarez
02-28-2005, 12:52 PM
Gents,

I've trained MT indirectly (as part of some JKD training). There is evidence that Oyama trained with Thais and that whence some of Kyokushin's leg kicks come from (very similar in my opinion).

I've used low line kicks several times in real fights. They are simply delicious (if one can say that about kicks). They are devastating, leave no mark on the face/upper body, and cannot be blocked if you set them up right. I'll also second Crafty's mention of Krabi. I got his tape when he was up here last September and the violent simplicity of Krabi is great.

I am all for keeping it simple, but we must be careful to not over simplify. Sometimes you need a chin jab, and other times you need a Muay Thai low line kick, and sometimes you need a knife in the neck. The wise man prepares accordingly.

Beware the "We Trun You Into A Killing Machine In 3 Easy Lessons" B.S.

If we needed the ultimate simplicity, I'd say to get yourself in fighting shape (Uyeshiba aside, the myth of the feeble old master is a myth). If you lose your breath drawing your pistol, and your six year old daughter can beat you in arm wrestling, you do not need to worry about learning to fight, you need to get strong.

After that take a few months of Muay Thai. Its a simple art that does not require endless years studying endless combinations. Rather it has a few techniques that can be learned and applied with violence very quickly.

Then study BJJ for a little while to learn how to survive on the deck and get back up. No need to train to fight in UFC, just good enough so you know how to avoid the ground.

Then get ahold of Mike Janich, Tom Sotis, or Marc Denny and learn a little stick, a little knife, and how to mix it up into a cocktail of death and destruction. That should take you about a years study.

Then just maintain it through as much (or as little) training as you need. There is no free lunch and you need to learn and practice

RES
02-28-2005, 02:24 PM
Gabe:

Good stuff, good plan for most folks.

My general recommendation, is for people to try a few different things, find a system that suits their physical capabilities and particular interests best, and then develop in that system primarily. Using the "multi-disciplinary" approach that you described, I would further recommend that areas a person hasn't developed enough in, should be developed via outside sources (other systems, etc).

I'm somewhat leery of "mix-n-match" practicioners, for the simple fact that I believe the best development comes in the form of tactics and strategies, rather than technical variety.

In the course of multi-disciplinary development, I tell people to look at it as training with another, more-knowledgeable person, rather than training in another system. Since all warrior development is a human endeavor, I believe the greater development comes from "living" a particular system, and then having exchanges (much like other human relationships) with other knowledgeable persons, regardless of their method of choice. They need not even be "fighting skills" people- they can be athletic trainers, nutritionists, lawyers, scientists, anyone from whom you can learn something which contributes to furthered understanding.

As far as feeble old masters: You're right, Gabe, no one ever went from neophyte to old master. What's important to remember, is that the old masters got to be such, by living a warrior lifestyle for a very long time. If anything, they should be regarded as proof that warrior skills development doesn't end after a few months or a year, but is a living skill which is continually trained and improved (and then transmitted to others) throughout one's lifespan.

I think one of the great benefits of Warrior Talk, is the accumulation of extremely knowledgeable trainers here, and through some of them, to even more knowledgeable persons (the genuine "old masters").

For the sake of fairness, I couldn't name off some of the folks here that fit the mold of "extremely knowledgeable", without being unfair to others who are, as well. Suffice to say, there are more than a few here.

As for the following quote:


I've used low line kicks several times in real fights. They are simply delicious (if one can say that about kicks).

Gabe... Have you been watching Christopher Lowell recently?

:eek: :D

Mongoose
04-23-2005, 12:21 AM
BTTT for us new guys, also seemed very relevant to this thread: http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=7265 on the pivot kick.

ShanghaiJay
04-23-2005, 08:35 AM
Cotton Hill,

Not to take anything away from Muay Thai, but why wouldn't you study the old Marine Corp WWII Dirty Judo? I am a big believer in the universal theory idea or the idea that the same movement should be identical or as close as possible in more than one application. As you already have studied judo, why would you not study the Atemi that was taken out of the old judo?

Osoto-gari can take on a whole new meaning when it is done with a Chin Jab!

Another thought. I think it is wise that before one cross trains in other arts or systems they might also look at how similar these different arts move. Some arts lend well to being combined and others do not due to the very fundamentals of their movement.

Jay

michael
04-23-2005, 09:02 AM
Osoto-gari can take on a whole new meaning when it is done with a Chin Jab!



+1 to that!:D

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
04-23-2005, 10:35 AM
"Another thought. I think it is wise that before one cross trains in other arts or systems they might also look at how similar these different arts move. Some arts lend well to being combined and others do not due to the very fundamentals of their movement."

EXACTLY SO.

In JKDC theory this is called "the common thread". For example, the arts of southeast Asia tend to have common thread. Without this, one simply has a collection of favorite techniqes. With it, one has a genuine synthesis.

All-in fighting
04-23-2005, 01:48 PM
gents, recently viewed a tape on burmese boxing [ close to thai in methods] i really like the way they showed self defense methods after fights really cool -looked like jiu jitsu, boxing , gung fu combined--also slowed up fight tapes, they throw their elbows with closed fists--i think most of the time , i have hais use open handed slashing elbows--thoughts?--ralph

Belisarius
04-24-2005, 07:03 AM
Re: slashing elbows. As you know, Muay Thai often uses the elbow to open hideous cuts on the eyebrow line, where other systems will sometimes seek blunt trauma with the upper part of the outer forearm pipe, often targeting the brachial T or jawline (if you make the fist too tight on a closed-fist elbow, you'll bulge soft tissue up over the forearm bone---you may or not want that, depending on your goal).

I personally prefer to throw elbows with an open hand or light fist and the hand generally being lower than the elbow, palm towards the attacker. I think the orientation of the palm is one of the key issues here. In an unattached hitting app, the non-hitting forearm stays in the cage position or comes up and posts across your own eyebrows as you hit, the idea being that if you can elbow, so can the other guy.

All-in fighting
04-24-2005, 09:22 AM
bel, does the technical -knockout for severe bleeding exist in sport muay thai as it does in boxing? this would be a good reason to open up your hand because the point of the elbow has a good chance to cut , rather than pound.---not saying this is the sole reason, but it may be one of the legit reasons--regards, ralph

Belisarius
04-24-2005, 10:11 AM
I think the short answer is "yes." The fight doc will normally stop a fight if someone sustains serious cuts. I'm sure rules and standards differ from place to place (and some smokers may not even have a doc on hand), but the bleeding that the point of an elbow can cause when shot down across the soft tissue of someone's face is certainly no joke.

I routinely have the skin on my elbows get red, even open up, just from doing slashing elbows across the pads. Taking the point of an elbow flush in the eye would be catastrophic; we just had a guy within the last month or so suffer a detached retina from catching the edge (should have been the palm, but it wasn't) of a focus pad to an eye when the padman was giving him an aggressive feed.

fm2
04-24-2005, 10:51 AM
Good points Bel.

One thing I noticed is when people throw them with a closed fist,they tend to make their fist too tight. They also tense up their chest and shoulder area and have more of a push than a pop from their elbow strike.

If anyone watched the "Ultimate Fighter" reality show recently
they would have seen the elbow put to good use by Kenny Florian. Kenny was standing back against the fence and Chris had a forearm across his collerbone with his wrist working on a choke and was foot stomping and punching him. Chris let his forearm slip down and Kenny caught him with a short elbow to the browline that stopped the fight. It didn't look like much, but it was very effective.

Wylycoyte
04-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Actually, I find that tensing my chest and shoulder area are a good thing...my shoulders are flexible enough so that they can occasionally pop slightly out of the socket while throwing an elbow, especially in a funny position like from on the floor while in someone's mount. It doesnt happen often but its mildly disconcerting and a bit painful when that happens.

All-in fighting
04-24-2005, 11:02 AM
i like the closed fist[ i think it is natural ] if you ask a child to throw an elbow, i think he would probably close his fist[ however this may be a result that every kid throws punches and it might seem natural to keep the fist closed] however , i am a close,real close-in elbower , so i do not care if it is a football forearm smash or an elbow---ralph

michael
04-24-2005, 11:48 AM
I agree with the points Bel made. I also prefer the open hand elbow with palm facing the opponent and below the elbow itself. I feel that it allows better range of motion, it's quicker, and it does not cause me to tense up as much. I also beel that you are striking with more of the point of the elbow as opposed to the forearm or muscle of the forearm. Both have thier place and are effective, but I think the open-handed version is better, at least for me.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
04-24-2005, 04:16 PM
Personally I prefer a straight line from finger tip to elbow, but one of my silat buddies who is a highly skilled real fighter has phenomenally hard forearms and swears by a clenched fist can be very persuasive of his approach as well.

Skpotamus
04-25-2005, 10:21 AM
I was taught to throw my elbows both ways, depending on the target and intent. Open palms facing opponent for "cutting" elbows. Open palm or relaxed fist, hand facing down for power shots. Typically my arms are in a closer horizontal line for power shots, while cutting shots tend to get more funky.

The hand tucks into your armpit when throwing a diagonal or horizontal elbow strike.

For vertical (or uppercut) elbows, I typically would leave my hand open with my palm facing my ear and throw the elbow all the way to the ceiling.

Spike (or downward) elbows usually had the palms either facing my face, or my ears. Depending on target and angle of attack. (palm facing face for straight down, palm facing ear for more angled ones).

All elbows are thrown from clinching range and typically with some sort of control over opponent (some exceptions exist, but elbows are more effective if you've got some control over the guys head first.

My typical entry into elbows would be a Jab, cross, wide hook (the hook hits with the forearm and "loops" the head into a easy plumb position. I begin my "white boy can't dance" dance (the awkward side to side, front to back, and rotating jerking motions that keep my opponent off balance), while I get the "rain dance" going (one metric shitton of knees, straight, round and curve) into the body, legs (and in case of street sit, the groin). When the persons hands come down to defend the knees, my left hand would typically push and jerk the guy very hard to the right, then release it's hold. (I've still got the guy with my right hand), then that left arm would simply come back and start elbowing quickly. If the hand comes back up to defend the elbows, the knees and "dancing" continue, or they get pushed off at an angle while a heavy round kick comes in (usually high since I've got a good hit percentage (and a few KO's) on it).

Belisarius
04-25-2005, 04:09 PM
Skpo, great post. That's the way to work it. When people break the clinch is when a lot of KOs happen, one way or another.

"Never break clean."

All-in fighting
04-25-2005, 04:18 PM
its good to hear a thai guy say he uses a closed fist elbow---i was told the open one was for cutting ! the closed for power ! by thai guys ---however i like my closed fist, maybe if i started in thai, i might be different, but football and close quarters fighting made me the way i am.like i said the burmese boxing tape from paladin press had the guy knocking the other guy out with a closed fist elbow---ralph---whatever gets the JOB DONE ---ralph

Belisarius
04-25-2005, 05:08 PM
I think you take what you get and both can win fights. Most tightly closed-fist elbows are going to rapidly converge on NFL-jitsu, as Ralph has intimated. I know a guy who played for the Orlando Predators (arena football) who likes to used closed-fist forearm shocks/elbows to the face and solar plexus with one hand as he violently underhooks your close arm with the other. When you respond by trying to protect your face with your hands, he slips to the back quarter like a ghost and can sink in a standing arm triangle choke. That of course is not enough, so he goes from that position into a sacrifice hip throw or sweep, and chokes you into bedtime on the ground.

If Dan gets the underhook successfully, he can run the rest of his little drill with boring regularity, even against people who know what he's about to do. Closed fist/palm down forearm-elbows seem to work well with the underhook game; open hand slashing seems to work well off the plumm or a random tie-up.

V42
04-25-2005, 06:48 PM
This is from the book AMerican Method of Hand to Hand Combat circa WWII.

V42
04-25-2005, 06:50 PM
Here is a combination:

All-in fighting
04-25-2005, 06:51 PM
nfl players during ww2 teaching combatives, everyone chipped in!-------guys, knew how to fight, this elbow, knee combo was taught to me and is brutal and better balanced than you think!----ralph----geez, it would be interesting to fight these guys

Belisarius
04-25-2005, 07:11 PM
I can think of few things worse than fighting an NFL player, either now---when you get a scientifically-trained Godzilla like Archuleta, or in the past, when you got psychos who ran punt returns before the days of the fair catch.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
05-07-2005, 11:11 PM
Woof All:

I missed the last several posts of this thread until just now when I came to it for other reasons. A hearty concurrence from me on NFL players. Currently I train Chris Gizzi, until recently a linebacker for the Green Bay Packers and have watched him train (for football) guys getting ready for NFL camps. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm 6'1", 190 pounds and a 32" inch waist. Chris is 6'1", 240 pounds (low fat) with 29" THIGHS. Incredibly coordinated, explosive, just very, very impressive.

(He will be appearing in our "Kali Tudo" (tm) DVD which releases in a couple of weeks BTW)

Anyway, turning to what brought me to this thread.

Some of you may or may not be familiar with the Thai movie ONG BAK which has become a cult favorite here in the US-- if you look a bit, you should be able to find it. It shows a lot of really good (movie) Krabi Krabong and I recommend it.

http://www.customflix.com/Special/AFIFEST/2004/Event.html?05ONGBAK

is a demo featuring the star of Ong Bak. Obviously quite a bit souped up for show biz, but it shows some moments of the empty hand skills of KK (sometimes known as Lerd Rit) and gives a bit of a feel for its intention to cover ground in broken formation battle conditions.

yip!
Crafty Dog

Kyle H
05-10-2005, 02:45 PM
is a demo featuring the star of Ong Bak. Obviously quite a bit souped up for show biz, but it shows some moments of the empty hand skills of KK (sometimes known as Lerd Rit) and gives a bit of a feel for its intention to cover ground in broken formation battle conditions.
Aside from the flying variety, the vast majority of the elbow work is awesome and practical. The dude is fast. Definitely a flick worth watching (and my wife is a fan of his movie flunkie cousin, who is a well-known Issan/Lao comedian).