View Full Version : Questions For H2h Trainers

12-31-2004, 06:17 PM
I finally decided to get off my duff and take some H2H training (well, all three of my folders could break one right after another, I might lose my grip on my cane, and guns are not the solution to all problems.)

I live in the Spokane/Coeur d'Alene area. None of the outfits that advertise here mention anything about combatives or such. A general sampling of the offerings includes: Karate, T'ai Chi Chuan, Taekwondo, Judo, Hapkido, Jui-Jitsu, Kenpo, Grappling, Submission, Kick Boxing, Aikido, Tang Soo Do, and BJJ. Every ad says Martial Arts or Self-Defense. At my age, I am well into my 69th year), I have no interest in pure defense. If I don't do something very pro-active and severely nasty, it'll be too late and too little for any "defensive" stuff. It ain't football, you can't win with defense.

What kind of probing, insightful and searching questions should I be asking, (without revealing how incredibly ignorant I am) before I get involved with a training regimen?

God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

12-31-2004, 06:34 PM
What kind of probing, insightful and searching questions should I be asking, (without revealing how incredibly ignorant I am) before I get involved with a training regimen?

OOhhhhhh.... that's kind of like asking a bunch of gourmands "What should I look for when buying wine?" LOL

I'd say, even more important than questions, is seeing for yourself. Comparison shop. Watch some classes, examine the instructor's attitude and teaching methods, see how he (or she) interacts with the students, and so on.

Listen your gut, because the instructor is far more important than the method.

Don't worry about "sounding ignorant". A good instructor would rather have a student who admits to knowing very little, regardless of age, than a student who pretends to know it all.

Lou Costello
12-31-2004, 06:37 PM
Geezer - you ain't all that old. You are 'seasoned'.

1. Beware of schools that require you to sign a contract. Some require that you pay FOR YEARS even if you lose interest or are physically incapable of studying any more.
2. For 'seasoned' people as yourself, get approval from your physician.
3. Get into martial arts gradually. Work on flexibility.
4. Admit to yourself that you may have some limitations. Work within those parameters.
5. Observe classes! Very important. Check if the instructor is approachable, knowledgeable, and is a good teacher. You don't need a 'screamer' or 'poser' as an instructor.
6. Recommend looking at T'ai Chi. It may seem weird at first.
7. Be patient.

12-31-2004, 06:50 PM
Good advice, Lou.

12-31-2004, 07:37 PM
I finally decided to get off my duff and take some H2H training.


I have no interest in pure defense.

You said two things that are almost contradictory
H2H training would be considered pure defense.

For movement and exercise without high impact, Tai Chi would be ideal. However, don't expect to be able to use it for self defense unless:

1. You have a very rare teacher who actually knows how to use it as a fighting art.

2. You are prepared to study it for like 20+ years under that person.

I live in the Spokane/Coeur d'Alene area. None of the outfits that advertise here mention anything about combatives or such. A general sampling of the offerings includes: Karate, T'ai Chi Chuan, Taekwondo, Judo, Hapkido, Jui-Jitsu, Kenpo, Grappling, Submission, Kick Boxing, Aikido, Tang Soo Do, and BJJ.

Of what you mentioned, Tae Kwon do, Tang Soo do, and kempo are likely to involve an emphasis on high kicking, difficult for even a young trained person to pull off and maybe awkward for an older, less flexible person to train in.

Judo is likely to involve a lot of throws and falling, which even on a padded floor will take on toll on you (hell, it can wear down young people).

BJJ and submission wrestling will likely find you grappling with younger people. Kickboxing will likely find you kickboxing against them.

Of everything you mentioned, Jiu Jitsu is generally geared toward practical self defense. Whether it can actually accomplish that or not depends on how practical the particular style is, how good the teacher is, and of course how long and hard you study.

I think the best advice was already given--to look around, observe a class or two at each, and decide from there what you think you would most enjoy and would best fit you and meet your needs.

Charles Rives
01-01-2005, 02:39 AM
Really do beware of the contracts. Many of them actually charge you for the full term of the contract and there's no way out of them. The monthly payments that you make are actually installments against a loan that they made to you for the full price of the full term of the contract. If you want to stop attending class, that's fine with them but you're still liable for the remainder of the loan value.


01-01-2005, 12:02 PM
V42, you said "H2H training would be considered pure defense."

Please explain. When I was a kid, and my friends' older brothers came back from Europe and the Pacific theatre, what H2H they taught us was all offense, no defense. What little my Dad showed me from his OSS training was also all offense, no defense.

Perhaps since in those days, boys fought frequently and freely, they figured we already knew a little bit about how to block a punch, step inside of the bigger guys' reach, etcetera.

To everyone, thanks for the very good advice. Unlike my children, when I solicit advice from those with experience, I follow it!

God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

Ted T.
01-01-2005, 12:26 PM
I agree (once again) with V42...

take a martial art that suits your temperament and age etc for physical benefits and WWII combatives for pure sd.

Add in a little Richard Dimitri for the social context and going feral and perhaps Marc MacYoung for awareness and evasion and you gots a full package.

Good luck,

01-01-2005, 12:56 PM
Tai Chi is great stuff for balance and centering. If you like the way the sessions are conducted, you can't go wrong.
As to your main reason for doing this:
The combat veterans you refer to learned first hand the principles of Speed,Surprise and Extreme Violence
If a shortcut exists, it would be learning a handful of effective techniques that use your best tools against someone else's best targets(elbows,knees,headbuts,etc.) from whomever you can find to teach you the nuances of them. Then S,S,EV
If you have a partner, you can practice reacting to and launching strikes from a safe distance as if you were sparring without contact. This way, you can work at full speed with full power(important). Any(or none) of the local instructors might have real experience.

01-01-2005, 01:46 PM
Geezer, I would suggest training WWII combatives on your own, using the books Get Tough, Kill or Get Killed, Cestari's and McCann's videos. Buy you a BOB dummy and work on it, then get you a partner to practice with. Spend your money on good seminars taught by SouthNarc, Gabe, Dimitri, etc. Also, you could spend a few days at Peyton Quinn's RMCAT or Lee Aldridge's RBFC and learn far more about fighting in a few days than you will in most dojos. YMMV.

Al Lipscomb
01-01-2005, 02:31 PM
I will give you some general thoughts:

Karate: There are many different styles of Karate. Some are good. Most are not.

T'ai Chi Chuan: Don't know.

Taekwondo: Too many sport oriented schools. One that teaches actual
combatives/defense going to be rare.

Judo: Some schools teach some good stuff. Take a look.

Hapkido: Good stuff in general. Again not all schools past muster.

Jui-Jitsu: Lots of different styles. Some good, some not.

Kenpo: Don't know.

Grappling: Useful skill set. May not be what you need.

Submission: Can have limited usefulness, but does not sound like what you are after.

Kick Boxing: I don't think that this will do you any good.

Aikido: Too few schools teach anything useful.

Tang Soo Do: Don't know.

BJJ: Some useful skills but few schools teach what you need. More sport these days.

01-02-2005, 08:37 AM
Tai Chi Chuan..... Has hard styles and soft styles. The practical value is balance and power focus. Takes a long time to gain useful tools, but you might enjoy the practice.

Kenpo.......A hard style that can contain some very practical applications. Again, time and patience. These people usually spar a lot.

Tang Soo Do..........Different from Kenpo, but could be described about the same.

Is there a boxing gym in your area?

I hope you find something you enjoy. That makes all the difference.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
01-02-2005, 01:57 PM

You mention being in your late 60s. What kind of physical shape are you in? How agile is your footwork? How is your eyesight? How hard can you hit? (hands, elbows, knees?) How flexible are you-- especially in your hips and waist? How would you describe your aerobic and anaerobic levels?

For what kind of problems do you envision preparing?

Crafty Dog/Marc

01-02-2005, 07:20 PM
A lot of good thoughts on here have already been posted, however, I will throw my hat into the ring with some thoughts. At your seasoned age, you probably know what you can and cannot get away with as far as strikes, felxibilty and speed. Punches might hurt you more than someone you strike, and you might not ever get those nice head height kicks, or even good waist level ones. Go with what you think will help you knowing your body type and abilities better than anyone here.

Most of the striking arts I would shy away from, as they focus on strength, speed and technique. While your technique can become quite good, your speed and strength will probably not be on the same level as a typical 24 year old. KB, Kempo, Tang Soo Do, TKD etc, rely on their strikes almost exclusively. Some schools do have a VERY limited number of self defense techniques that don't involve striking as the primary attack mode, but those are typically techniques, and not what you need (IMHO) to defend yourself. You need a philosophy that will involve striking, throws, and joint locks to give you more options in case of an attack. Hapkido does attempt this philosophy, however most schools fall short in my experience. They tend to get the arrogant "Traditional Martial Arts" attitude that so many schools get into, "My art is the best, blah blah blah, if you don't do hapkido you don't know anything...etc"

Tai Chi is typically taught as a form of exercise and internal harmony, and the way it is typically taught as such and contains very little for SD.

Any type of ground fighting will help, but you need something you can use on your feet, and possibly transition to ground fighting if necessary. however, I HIGHLY recommend aganist any type of ground fighting in a SD situation, as a lot of people tend to hang out with friends and getting booted in the head by 3 or 4 people isn't fun at any age.

Most jiujitsu styles I've seen, quite frankly, suck for self defense on their own. They were designed primarily for Samurai to use when their swords had been lost in battle. Most of those styles haven't been updated since then. A good question to ask at a jiu-jitsu school: How would you nullify a boxer's 1-2 (jab,cross). Most answers I got to that question were "samurai did NOT punch like boxers." The few that tried to answer required their handspeed to be far greater than that of the incoming punch. The best answer was from the instructor that taught Judo and Small Circle Jiu-Jitsu. "Get low and come in off an angle, clinch, and go for a takedown, or some form of armbar, depending on how my opponent reacted to my clinch. If they push into me with their body, they're going flying, if they try to pull away, they push with their arms and I go for that armbar." Their answer was to bring the attacker out of their environment to their own environment.

Judo is good at throws, not just throws, but the Kuzushi, or off balancing that is required for any type of throw or takedown. They do contain some ground fighting, but it's typicaly quite limited and a LOT of schools don't teach any.

If your body is up to it, I would suggest you look into a good Judo school, and try to couple that with some form of jiu-jitsu school with your own dirty tricks and knowledge you've probably acquired over the years. Learn how to throw, get people off balance, and learn the joint locks from jiu-jitsu, and most of all, learn how to fall without breaking something.

Get yourself in close and attempt to nullify any strength advantage your attacker might have over you through the use of leverage and technique. Someone trying to wrestle you typically isn't striking, they're trying to wrestle. If you have the edge in technique, you can beat much larger people. An extreme example of this: On December 31, Royce Gracie (179lbs) fought against former Yokozuna Akebona (485lbs) in a MMA match. It became a grappling contest and Gracie submitted akebono with an armlock. Even though akebono was in the full mount position (sitting on Gracies chest), he tried to wrestle since royce was holding on, allowing royce to use superior technique to prevail. Keep the big guys in close and they can't hit as hard.

Hope this helps, but more importantly, I hope you find what you need for your own defense. You might see if you can get some kind of communication to Gabe (the man himself) and a few other experts in weapons and H2H self defense, see what they say. They've undoubtedly taught people in your situation and age bracket before and could probably offer better insight than someone like me who's 24.


01-02-2005, 08:03 PM
As a P.T. in Balto. Md. I have treated enought people over the age of 60 to just advise you to stay away from direct physical contact if possible. Too much of a chance of falling stiffly,or poorly and fracturing something you'll need for the next 20 years or so.
I've read enough of your threads to know you are a bright,aware and careful individual. You didn't get to this sage like age by being stupid or careless;)
Dojo karate,katas and years of being a white belt are a waste of time at your age. Weapons that are easy to carry,unobtrusive and hurt alot are a much better option in my opinion.
I would suggest you carry your cane if you are concerned about a place or at night(distance is your friend). I would also suggest you practice with it alot. Find a younger dude who is willing to "suit up" and attack you so you can play with different cane attack plans for h2h . Go visit the Cane Masters site for some excellent videos.
Against a knife I would go to www.virtualblade.com and pick up one of them and practice and SEE how you really do against a "live" blade attack. Remember the attack has to be REAL. If your partner holds back the exercise is faulty. My guess a pushy punk or hold up with a knife are the 2 main choices for cane offense.
Play with gun disarms as well using hands as opposed to cane. Your hands are probably much quicker without the cane for those and the cane will probably telegraph your intentions.
This has been said by many people more experienced than I on this great site,but, it bears repeating..cheat in the beginning,middle,and end and use misdirection as often as possible. Stay safe.

01-02-2005, 10:08 PM
Geez, you mite want to look at a Wing-Chung school, I found I prefered it over the other standards, due to the lower kicks used,and the double hand attacks.

01-03-2005, 04:16 AM
I agree with BladeMaster. At your age you need not waste time beating yourself up with hard contact training or learning kata to earn rank. Canemasters has some very good material for those that use canes (plus sword canes make nasty weapons too ;) ). Also learning more on improvised weaponry would help also. Learning to utilize whats at hand like your belt, an umbrella, a rolled up magazine, pens & pencils, etc., in a direct effective manner could more likely be acheived much faster.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
01-03-2005, 11:19 AM

I agree with not getting dinged up-- but at the same time, there needs to be SOME sort of training wherein the man gets a sense of where he is at and what he can and can't do-- hence the questions I asked a few posts ago.

For example, apart from the applicability of BJJ, I know that even though I did not start until the age of 39 (I'm 52 now) BJJ has been invaluable to me in developing sheer aggressiveness in my striking game. Without confidence in grappling in the absence of a referee who will separate a clinch or takedown it is hard to have aggressiveness in striking.

Implicit in my questions, was the notion of looking at and working on the attributes of the delivery system of whatever techniques/system/style the older player may train (btw the Wing Chun one is not a bad idea at all).

OF COURSE banging or thrashing with young idiots is a poor idea, but as we get older it gets easier to say "Hey! I'm just an old man having a good time" and ask your partners to adjust their intensity accordingly. If this means you are a bore for some of them, then find different partners. Consider paying for privates. Consider the merits of what Roger Machado calls "Yoga Jitsu" or the "Gimnastica Natural" developed by Orlando Cani (now retired I think, he developed the Yoga used by the Gracies/Machados to develop their ability to move so well on the ground.)

I believe as long as both people in the roll (or spar etc) are working at matching intensities, good benefits for both are the result.

Amongst the benefits for the older player is the simple sense that results from this play of knowing where he is at physically--a sense of what he can dish out and what he can take.

This, IMHO is invaluable for those moments where one needs to act for my philosophy is that we all have a place within ourselves where we are young again if but for a moment. With the cunning of age luring the arrogance of youth into an opening for an unexpected explosion amazing things can be achieved.

Over my desk is a newspaper clipping from here in Los Angeles of an 85 year old Filipino, 125 pounds, who CAPTURED at 15 year old 155 pound burglar in his home using a length of pipe which he "just happened to have".

This inspires me and it is what I think of for my "Dog Brothers Martial Arts" with our mission statement of "Walk as a Warrior for all your days."

Crafty Dog/Marc

PS: My example here has been of how BJJ can be trained by an older person, but this is not to say that I am pushing only BJJ. My point is simply that the older Practitioner needs to have a game to play wherein he gets a sense of himself and of engaging with another live human being. Mix this with technical training to develop the tools and with suitable physical training (e.g. the Yoga Jitsu) and you may be pleasantly surprised at what can be achieved.

01-03-2005, 12:04 PM
Wow Bro!
At your age any training is to be applauded!
F***in A!
The H2H training experts have way better input than me as to what type of training will serve you best but I just noticed this thread and wanted to give you an Attaboy! :D

I hope your example rubs off on others!

01-03-2005, 03:25 PM
LRS, if you get anywhere near Marine Attack Squadron 311, tell that avionics WO I might be able to kick his butt when he gets back. :rolleyes: :D

God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

Gabriel Suarez
01-03-2005, 03:41 PM
Geezer is the guy who could throw his cane and solidly hit a target at 15 feet and then before the cane hit the deck, had his snubbie out and barking. Impressive.

My reccomendation would be to look at developing your highest level of fitness (being able to hit without getting hurt, being able to move without problems, and as Crafty Dog mentions, being able to explode). Combat should not be looked at as a marathon, but as a sprint, thus explosiveness is more important than many other aspects.

As far as a school to look at, it depends on what is in your area. Grab a phone book and make a list. Visit these guys, look at their students, look at them and what tey say. There's a lot of BS in the Martial Arts world, but determining what is BS should not be hard.

Short of that seminars ae also sound way to train. If you have a backyard or garage suitable for it, you can get a BOB dummy and work on alot of techniques learned in the seminars.

01-03-2005, 03:52 PM
In answer to Marc:

I am 5'8" tall, weigh about 200 lbs, stocky frame, heavy bones, smaller hands & wrists.

I have a pacemaker, a high/low, on the left side. Most of the time I am in atrial fibrillation, with a pulse of about 90 BPM. Any cardio activity has me gasping for oxygen pretty quickly, due to the fib and the response time on the upper limit of the pacemaker. Because of the fib, I am on Warfarin, so it is a really bad idea for me to get cut or shot.

I have pretty bad arthritis, I often have to limp because of some sort of a problem with one foot. My eyesight is still fair, except I can't focus on the front sight anymore (Now what, Dr. P.?). Hearing is fair.

The good news. I am told I am relatively insensitive to pain. I am stubborn. I am aggressive when the balloon goes up. I have seen the elephant, and managed, so to speak, to cut off a piece of his ear. I lost, conservatively, at least 500 fistfights in grammar school before I won one.

Up until age fifty I played soccer, midfielder, not because of my skill but because of my work rate.

I carry the cane. I always carry at least one knife, usually three besides a Leatherman. I have used a knife before. Although I have false teeth, they fit well enough that I could bite through an Adam's apple, given the opportunity.

After reading about Tom Given's unfortunate students who left their legal guns at home and paid the price for it, I now carry every time I leave the house. My wife also carries, and she is extremely aggressive in defense of me.

I took a little cane training in Los Angeles with Toma Rosensweig. When sparring with a friend, I discovered that arthritis slows me down so badly that I have had to modify some of the stuff, down to just three or four very simple elements.

I am not very strong anymore, I can do maybe 5 curls one-handed curls with a 30 lb dumbbell. My exercise is an elliptical machine, a little Body by Jake and curls with 8 and 10 pound weights, looking for lots of reps rather than a few heavy ones. I have a poor man's sparring dummy (a duffle bag stuffed with clothes and a couple of 2" PVC pipes sticking out.) hanging in the garage. If it is a god idea, I can add a body bag.

I rely a lot on not appearing on the radar. There are various confrontations, predator/predator, predator/victim, sheepdog/predator, I try to practice a mindset that leaves me out of these roles, sort of being invisible in a sense. It has been pretty successful. It is also a decent variant on that mitsubishi stuff, instead of throwing something tangible, you are throwing a smoke screen into the OGs eyes.

That's all I can think of. God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

01-03-2005, 04:19 PM
SEE!!! I knew you were a CRAFTY(sorry Marc)dude, not to be trifled with. You said it in your response...short,simple bursts(cane or gun) if you're detected, sounds the easiest to me. Stay safe!

01-03-2005, 04:35 PM
Mindset and aggression will go a long way for you. You might also look into using Yoga to supplement your fitness program. It will help your flexibility, breathing, and should help your arthritis, while not overly taxing your heart.

I would still steer you towards learning the WWII combatives techniques that are geared towards your fitness level and abilities. It doesn't take much strength or stamina to strike to the throat with an EOH blow, knee to the testicles, gouge to the eyes, etc. Obviously, utilizing your weapons and mindset are your best bet, but a little training in simple, WWII type combatives will go a long way to ensure your safety.

Ted T.
01-03-2005, 08:37 PM
I worked with Toma and we had a lot of fun.

I tend towards WWII combatives more than his aikido but hey, it's all good.

Sounds to me that you are doing great!

01-03-2005, 09:52 PM

Sounds like you're one tough dude.

I'll second (or third?) the recommendation for a 'soft' style like Tai Chi or yoga, for the same reasons mentioned: it's a good workout which won't tax your heart unduly.

I'll also recommend it for another reason: You're already a pretty tough, confident guy. I frequently say that 99% of victory, is determination, which you obviously have. A determined person can make just about any technique successful. The soft workout will help loosen you up and develop your balance and timing.

One thing I would bear in mind, with regards to your defense strategy, is something that I know Toma would agree with: In aikido, we frequently admonish students to "move slower, but get there first". The underlying principle is, that a determined, well-timed movement is superior to a fast, but uncontrolled one. It's very similar to the shooter's adage of "speed is fine, but accuracy is final".

It's also very much like the principle of "old age and treachery, beats youth and agility".

01-03-2005, 10:32 PM
Okay, Geez gets put in my book, Reminder to self don't screw with old guy and cane :)

01-04-2005, 02:33 AM
Just a couple of ideas.I truely hope they help,because you certainly deserve it.First question asked is "how can we adapt the art & the training to my needs?I think that by asking that you'll get a good feel for the physicality of the system & more importantly the instructor & his ability to work with you.

Personally,I wouldn't think that the hard styles you mentioned would be in your best interest for many reasons,but mostly because their very hard on the joints.However,I would check the schools out anyway,because you just might meet an instructor who has the insight & passion to adapt his system to your needs.

I agree with the Tai chi idea(it would be good for you)but only if they teach the self defense.Most don't but its out there.Ba gua or pakua(same,different spelling)or xing yi are internal arts like tai chi,but tend to focus on application as well as health.You tend to find these classes in parks in the Asian part of town.

Also there seems to be a pretty good number of Filipino martial arts & silat in your area.Weapon based arts make sense to me,since I started reading WT :)but working with the sticks,my wrists arent as sore.These 2 arts imo have alot of us over 40 types actively particapating.


01-04-2005, 05:43 AM
Okay, Geez gets put in my book, Reminder to self don't screw with old guy and cane :)

I formed that opinion myself when I trained with Toma. As Ted says, he is a lot of fun but I wouldn't mix it with him especially if he had a cane. Methinks Geezer is from the same mold
Mental note to self: always wear running shoes if I get to meet him, in case I need to outrun a fast moving cane :D

01-04-2005, 05:46 AM
Have a look at the website of Wim Demeer. I can't remember what he calls it now, but he is an exponent of Tai Chi and a really nice guy. He lives in Belgium but has contacts all over. He may be able to help.


01-04-2005, 09:28 AM
I'm with Geezer. Two three moves and it had best be done with. I read the thread on speed rock and it seemed to me that blocking and creating distance was the most important thing that you could do. I was wondering if a baton might not be useful to those of us that are seasoned. It would act as a force multiplier and buy time to draw your sidearm.

01-04-2005, 10:34 AM
You guys have an opinion of me that is highly over rated and totally unwarranted. Just a stoved-up creaky old fart with a poor attitude and way more luck than I have ever earned or deserved.

Re sticks, canes, batons, etcetera. While distance is my friend (About 500-600 yards, a clear field of fire, and a good rest for the forearm comes to mind) it might not be much help against someone younger, taller, faster and more agile.

Enter the stick. Almost everyone focuses on the weapon. When a baton, or cane is raised, or brandished, it draws the attention. It is pretty natural for people to want to grab it and wrest it away from you. That's a good thing, if you go with their force, and step into them. If the stick is in your support hand, and you turtle your head and neck into their chest as you step into and up against them, your firing side hand is out of their view, and free to draw a suitable weapon. A hammerless revolver or a short, fast folder might work best in this scenario, or even a stinger. It's less than 2 inches from the point just under the sternum to the nerve center. Not real gooey and instantly incapacitating.

The stick becomes another one of those mitsubishiroonies, drawing attention and focus away from what is really important.

As a relatively short kid fighting older and bigger OGs, I quickly learned to close with them, grapple and get inside their swing. It also worked better against multiples, it limits the options of the other OGs.

BTW, the response to my question has been absolutely fantastic. I am printing all of this out, to read a couple of times, makes some notes, and then begin talking to the trainers in the area. Thank you all very much.

God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

01-04-2005, 11:29 PM
Naw Geez, I got your number.. As Mr.TI once told me 100 years ago while study'en how to make good use of sickles,


Dave in PA
01-05-2005, 06:41 AM

I admire your attitude! After reading this thread, I immediately thought of Gabe's book "The Combative Perspective". Specifically, chapter #4, which deals with attitude.

My thoughts are: if you have the right attitude, physical skill and weapons are merely supplemental (although, still important). Read of the elderly female who is attacked by a teenage gangbanger, only to suprise him with a pen to the eye socket! Tough broad, eh? She had no special pysical skills to speak of, but she was willing and didn't hesistate. I suspect you would be the same.

I work with a guy who had limited defensive techniques. But, when things go south, he is fearless and just will not stop. I really like that. I suspect you are also like him.


01-05-2005, 05:18 PM
Note to self: Before traveling to them parts, ask Geez's permission. I hadn't truly made my mind up until all that modest(read:shark) talk.

01-06-2005, 12:32 AM
This is a set-up. Y誕ll have got me mixed up with somebody else. I am dreading Memphis this weekend.

Typically, I値l get on the wrong shuttle from the airport, I値l stumble and fall down in the hotel lobby, I will have forgotten to pack my cup, at the range I値l drop all the rounds out of my speedloader after shooting my gun dry, and then when I bend over to pick them up, vertigo will drop me on the floor in front of everybody. I値l trip over my own cane, completely miss the COM, break a fingernail trying to open my folder and snivel and beg for a Band-Aid. The first gun grappling exercise I値l somehow bang myself in the nose with the red gun, and get a nose bleed all over the only sweat shirt I packed.

There is a reason that those who hunt with me call me Elmer Fudd. There is a reason that on my 60th birthday, the cake was decorated with various hunting type themes, little deer, moose, etcetera, and a pickup truck.

Then there was the time, completely oblivious, I drove into Jordan Downs right into a group of about 25 youts standing in the street discussing the best ways to dismember honkies.

Hey, who else do you know that overheard some BGs discussing how they were going to jack a car and then take the driver, knock him in the head and throw him out in a wheat field? And then was surprised when they surrounded his car?

Fortunately I have many years of experience making a fool out of myself, stumbling, fumbling, missing the point to jokes, screwing up free lunches and so on. It is my lot in life, I have come to accept it. However, all of you instructors will find it very helpful to have me in your classes. You can point to me, and instruct the rest of the class to DON乃 DO IT THAT WAY!

God bless and y誕ll be mindful out there.

01-07-2005, 01:55 AM
I like your attitude!
I think you are G.T.G.
Keep it up,never quit! :D

01-17-2005, 12:39 PM

I have taught many men over the age of 60 in my style of martial arts (Bando). It is not a system for the young or old but a system for anyone who shows the desire and will to learn.

There are extreme hardcore training and very high levels of training. For the aged we prefer to take the high levels.

I start all students out first by interviewing and asking what they want out of their martial arts life, then I put a plan together for them.
All students first learn the basics of the 9 x 9 which is the foundation of Bando. They are listed below:
1. punching 9 total
2. blocking "
3. kicking "
4. stepping "
5. stance
6. elbows 9 total
7. knees "
8 grips "
9. targets '
The 9x9 is the foundation however there are many other drills or forms that can be replaced within the Matrix of the 9 x 9.
Once the students has that part of Bando down we move into the system.
I sugguest for you to find a boxing club to start, there is no better defense or offense than American style boxing. Once when I was training with Rex Applegate I asked him about martial arts and self defense training. He told me that there was no better way to learn how to fight a man than boxing. Take it from a man who was there and done that.
Boxing instructors will teach you the basics and work you up to speed when you are capable.
Dont forget to work out, I power walk at least 4-5 miles per week and pull Yoga or stretching at least 3 times per week.
Forget all that flying through the air and grappling for now, just learn about what your body can handle then try boxing. Once you feel good and can fight in the gym try kickboxing and then take some classes with us in knifeboxing.

K.Edward Martin

01-17-2005, 02:14 PM
I met geezer in Memphis and the man is just what Gabe said he was a couple of posts back. During our first PS class, Geezer engaged two targets, while engaging the first target with two shots, he threw his cane at the second target and then transitioned to the second target while the cane was still in the air and fired his remaining three shots into the second target. When Geezer retrieved his cane, he discovered that one of his rounds had struck his cane while in the air. During our second PS class, I watched Geezer and Matt Temkin go rolling down the firing line during a H2H demo. IMHO Geezer has the heart of a warrior which is the best foundation to build from. Geezer I would start out learning WWII combatives because they follow the KISS principle. Once you have those down look at learning more complex moves with different trainers. Btw Geezer, you were correct that WWII combatives are all offensive moves...lets not forget that the best defense is a good offense.