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View Full Version : Weapons carry in Europe (knife? Leatherman? anything!!??)



Mike_M
02-24-2004, 08:35 PM
I read Travis's post and replies on a similar topic in January. I'm wondering if anyone knows what a guy can arm himself with lawfully in Italy, Spain, and in other European countries. I figure the .38 special is out, but what about a folding lock-blade? Blade length? Hey, even the Leatherman tool?
I realize, all in the check baggage, but, once there, it sure would be nice to have something.
Not intending to be fair game at all,
Mike

MTS
02-24-2004, 08:54 PM
I carry a Spyderco Endura in Spain without problem so far. I had one National Police Officer that looked at it and kind of shake his head but that was it.

Of course I had just given him a departmental patch which probably helped.:)

After that we just sipped our beers and until he and his partner got a radio call and left.

I also carry a SureFire and Gerber multi-plier. Never had a problem carrying them. Just people wanting to see them and hoping that they didn't disapear.

colson
02-25-2004, 08:02 AM
I carried a Spyderco Endura or Delica from one end of Europe to another the six years I lived over there, no problem as long as common sense exercised. If you use it, though, expect a long stay in jail until it gets all sorted out.

I found the AO to be very safe compared to the US as long as you didn't do anything stupid (common sense again.) Stay away from big soccer games and don't pick fights with the Turks.

Even Bosina was no problem, but I was packing a bit more than a Delica there.

Praetorianus
02-25-2004, 09:58 AM
In italy you cant carry any knife "ready for use" unless for "reasonable motivation" other than self defense if you dont have a carry permit!
I believ you can carry it not ready a.k.a in a pack or something like but at this point its of no use...
I dont know if a US carry permit has any legal value here in europe or in italy.
I'm sorry but our legislation is driven by political correctness...

mercop
02-25-2004, 10:55 AM
As usual I would advise a Surefire, Yawara Bo in the form of a sturdy pen or a big ass perminent marker. The caribiner that holds yours keys makes a nice fistload. You are limited by your own deviancy. That is why I will never be limited :)

Mike_M
02-25-2004, 09:45 PM
As usual I would advise a Surefire, Yawara Bo in the form of a sturdy pen or a big ass perminent marker. The caribiner that holds yours keys makes a nice fistload. You are limited by your own deviancy. That is why I will never be limited :)

First, thanks to all. Bring it on. I'd like to know more.

The "deviancy" limitation comment is both hilarious and practical.

Sounds a lot like over hear in the few remaining non-carry states. Europe can't be more restrictive than the communist state of Chicago.

Mike

Hartford
02-26-2004, 03:11 AM
First, thanks to all. Bring it on. I'd like to know more.

Sounds a lot like over hear in the few remaining non-carry states. Europe can't be more restrictive than the communist state of Chicago.

Mike

Mike_M

Hello all. I might have be able to help with this topic since i have lived in the Southern area of Italy now for 2 years. ANY USE OF A WEAPON HAD BETTER BE AS A LAST RESORT, END ON TOPIC. You will go to jail for a very, very, very long time. You will have no recourse, you will have an Italian Lawyer (can you say dumbassh#@) and the US will not help you. There are accounts of people closely related to the US mil. (Family Members))who for what ever reason got arrested and are still in jail and have seen no lawyers, and will get no help from US Mil. authority. Keep this in mind, Europe, is not the US, this is (not??) the real world, and things are done in a much different way.

Also, it would be impossible to utilize that level of force and get away with it. When you come here, you will quickly realize that everyone is always watching, and there will be some one everywhere. However, if you could pull it off, you'll probably get away with it, investigative services here suck, and you could be on a plane to the US an houre after the insident, which is what i recommend, at all costs. Lose the knife, and take you bags.

I was "bitch slapped" on a train once, and when you have lived here as long as i have, its a real insult! I had to sit back and ignore the incident, if i had started something, it would have been jail for the American. JUST WALK AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, i do carry a Ken Onion Kershaw, and at certian times, my CRKT M-16. I carry one or the other for one thing, Terrorist attack (kidnapping). I do a lot of walking around on my own, in out of the way places and there is a lot of suspiciouse activity going on. My suggestion is to get one of thoes really nice new Sure-Fires with that defensive striking tool on it, get two in case you need to give one up to the police. Also, as others have said, improvise!! One thing i have learned here is to be totaly aware of my environment, i can pick out weapons of opportunity almost instantly now. There is a lot of trash in Europe, Trash = Weapon.

Conclusion, use good common sense, BE AWARE AT ALL TIMES, Practice Force Protection, be nice to others, and oh, LEAVE ITALY OUT OF THE ITINERARY (Northern italy is fine, but you will be disapointed with most of it, Visit Rome for a day or two (watch the camera and wallet; beware of the children!!!) Southen Italy SUXXXXXXXXXXX), Germany Rocks!!! (Try Garmish, Germany!! Good food, good beer, really hot chicks!!)The rest of Europe is ok.

Hope this helps, stay safe, be smart!!

Regards

sween1911
02-26-2004, 11:54 AM
Hartford,

Excellent response. We forget, in our quest to stay safe, that there are places worse than the worst in the US that simply don't recognize the individuals right to keep themselves from harm.

Sizzler
02-26-2004, 01:26 PM
In Germany You can (or could 9 years ago) buy an automatic knife (4 inch switchblade) down town in the shops. I think I paid like $180 for mine. It's now kept in a foot locker in the attic. I don't remember the name though, I think it started with "Bo" something. Very nice hand carving.

Anyway that's what I carried while stationed there.

MrMurphy
02-28-2004, 09:44 AM
Use a cane?

Anthony
02-28-2004, 02:00 PM
Use a cane?

A cane or an umbrella is good advice.
Most 'personnal' robberies do not involve firearms, & a good show of agression will probably be enough.
Firearms use is more for bank/post office robbery, or drug dealer desputes.

Think ' Improvised Weapons'.
Become a 'hard target'. Be aware of your surroundings etc. It will probably suffice.

Regards,
Anthony.

Mike_M
02-28-2004, 06:13 PM
A cane or an umbrella is good advice.
Most 'personnal' robberies do not involve firearms, & a good show of agression will probably be enough.
Firearms use is more for bank/post office robbery, or drug dealer desputes.

Think ' Improvised Weapons'.
Become a 'hard target'. Be aware of your surroundings etc. It will probably suffice.

Regards,
Anthony.

Great info. Keep 'em coming.
Mike

Anthony
03-02-2004, 02:30 PM
Mike M,
A couple of true stories from Europe ( the UK actually.)

A friend of mine, - 16/17 years as a London cop. ( Ex Royal Marine Commando,) recounted a case a year or 2 ago. ( He is a Homicide detective.)
American woman. Retired. Tired of the violence & crime in the US, decides to move to London.
Stabbed to death in a park.

On one of my few visits to the UK, ( 1995 I think ) there was a report of tourist muggings in London.
An American woman had her handbag strap 'slit' the bag being grabbed, & the mugger ran off into the many allys. She cried as she recounted that she had everything in her bag. - Passport, money, credit cards etc.

Nowhere is safe these days.

Why is it that people think when they go to Europe, that it is all ok ?
The murder rates for sure are much less. But you have to take the same care as you would in downtown L.A. for example.

If going out to a pub/bar for the evening, leave everything at the hotel, taking just enough cash for your drinks.

Going out to shop ?
Take a credit card. Leave the others at the hotel.
It's called 'common sense'.

Improvised weapons are in abundance. Bar stools, glasses, bottles, canes & umbrellas etc. ( Although you'll look pretty stupid taking an umbrella to the beach in southern Spain/Italy, as you would walking with a cane if you are in your early 20's :rolleyes: )

Many British security companies get good contracts overseas because they work in the UK UNARMED !
Of course they will probably work overseas armed, but the clients like the fact that they are used to working unarmed, & will use 'mind-set' first. Anything that seems wrong, - IS wrong, & they will avoid it before resorting to 'gunplay'.

In many cases, ( I'm not talking here about cops,) if we have to resort to 'gunplay' we have probably 'failed'. - We may of course get out alive, but if it could have been avoided, it would have been so much better.

Just my 0,02cents. ;)

Regards,
Anthony.

RMF
03-02-2004, 03:30 PM
The murder rates for sure are much less. But you have to take the same care as you would in downtown L.A. for example.

.

I don't think that is true anymore. I think the rate is now higher.

Anthony
03-02-2004, 03:58 PM
I don't think that is true anymore. I think the rate is now higher.

RMF,
With all due respect, Violent crime rates may well ( & probably are ) be higher.
But murder ?
The UK had about 500 per year when I left in 1988. Pop 56 M.
The USA - Pop 250 M ( even if it's 300 M nowadays) at 10.000 per year is far, far greater. With perhaps 6 times the pop of the UK, back in 1988, the murder rate was 20 times.
If it has increased that much I would really like to know. :confused:

Whatever, where I live now, we have about 43.000 murders per year. - Brazil. Pop, at the most - 200 M.

In 1995 on a visit to the UK, a friend asked me if I had known anyone personally who had been murdered.
I sat & thought for a while.
TEN was the answer. ( Since then I've lost count.)
And here in the UK ? - Not including the Falklands or N.Ireland !

Nobody.

It's all pretty grim whatever. I really don't like to argue statistics.
All the best RMF, & if you have any updated statistics on UK/Europeon crime, I'd really like to know.

Regards,
Anthony.

RMF
03-02-2004, 05:36 PM
I'll have to look it up. And you may be right - I might be remembering the violent crime rates. In either case it would be the rate per unit of population - not the total number.

It's rough getting old - once the memory goes you forget what else went with it!!!!

kforbus
03-02-2004, 05:56 PM
When stationed in Germany during the 80's I always carried a folder of some sort and almost always a handgun. Usually a S&W 45 and actually pulled it and ready to use it once. I know it's illegal but, some times civil disobedience is neccessary, especially if it concealed.

MTS
03-06-2004, 11:11 AM
IIRC violent crime in the UK is higher than the US EXCEPT for homicide.

Anthony
03-08-2004, 04:01 PM
I don't wish to sound sarcastic, but is murder defined in the same way in the UK (or Australia for that matter) as in the US? The reason that I mention this at all, is that some have stated that cities have classified murders as manslaughter, which of course would then indicate a lower or declining murder rate. Just a thought.

Will,
Your question deserves an answer. I will try, but I'm no expert on the matter.
The Brits beat each other silly every weekend, in pubs. They fight when drunk, like I've never seen here in Brazil. Bottles, glasses, even knives are used. Whilst living there I saw, ( & was involved in,) hundreds of fights ! But they seem to stop before they actually kill.
Here in Brazil, I can count on my 2 hands, the number of fights I have seen. They are extremily rare. When they happen, it's arguing, pushing, people trying to break it up etc.
But all too often, over something stupid like a traffic incident, someone will pull a gun, & shoot the opponent.
I guess it's a cultural problem.
FWIW, I feel safer here in Brazil than I did in the UK, despite the much higher murder rate.
Talking about murders, - there were 84 in Rio de Janeiro during carnaval ! The governor's husband ( the ex-governor ) said it was great ! - A reduction of 1% :rolleyes:
That was probably due to the fact that it rained hard during the 4 & a half days of carnaval in Rio. So half the population stayed at home.
Regards,
Anthony.