Drawing Against The Drop

[jajthoma@yahoo.com]

I have followed Gabes teachings from Close Range Gunfighting for about a year and have become familiar with the moves and jargon. I have incorporated them into my training program. However, the Thanksgiving 2006 Suarez Int'l Update on "Drawing Against The Drop" has left me totally confused. Can someone explain the move to me in terms I can relate to? For instance, what is Blading? What kind of Parry is called for? Is there a video of the movement somewhere that I can see and begin to train with?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Thomas
jajthoma@yahoo.com

[Al Lipscomb]

Blading is turning your body sideways to the adversary in order to present the smaller target area. I have not read the mail in depth yet but the normal parry would be to take the support hand and use it to move the gun in the opposite direction you are moving.

Gauntes wrote the article so let me leave the rest for him.

[Glenn Matthews]

We touched on this in ECRG class in Dallas! Great technique for when you are hung up in a hallway, or elevator!

Are you gonna get shot, cut or stabbed. Probably; just not as badly as if you stuck your head in the sand! But, at least you can get some rounds onboard and hopefully win the fight!

[Manwell]

I trained this move with Gabe in Atlanta earlier this year… It was very interesting and a real eye opener. It involves turning your body sideways while stepping forward to the left or right. Got shot every time; that was the eye opener part. Of course, in the practice scenario the BG already knew what you were going to do. Still the best move I’ve ever seen.

Manwell

[Geezer]

Let's not forget that in real life, with real guns, it worked.

I am surprised that it didn't work in practice. When we drilled it at the June & September Spokane camps with Guantes supervising, it worked every time, including little Jill against very big & strong Positive Rate.

The draw and shot has to be unconscious, intuitive, there is no time nor surplus focus to spend thinking about it. They have to be a "done deal" when the releaser word is spoken. I cannot think of any CQC tactic that allows for any focus on the draw and initial shot. Perhaps there are some, of course, but I am unaware of them.

There are variations on DATD depending on how the OG is holding his gun, whether or not you are with a SO and how and where you are carrying, but I would strongly suggest working on it just as Guantes described it until the flow is perfect, before you try other variants.

If the OG is not holding the gun in a retention position, the distance can be extended to 6 feet, just by taking a stride forward as the support hand reaches out to parry.

Typically you will not nor should you see your gun. You see his gun to direct the parry, and then it is all over. The whole thing takes less than 1 second. If you shoot more than once, you will probably transfer your eyes to look at his eyes, still not seeing your gun.

Remember that it will work much worse in practice than in real life. The real life OG is seeking compliance, and expects it. If he wanted to kill you, you would be already dead. He wants to control your behavior, which puts him O and O and D behind the loop whereas you are at A. In practice he is at D when you are at A. That gives you a 0.2 second advantage at least.

God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

[jajthoma@yahoo.com]

Thanks guys, that answers most of my questions. I would like to see it in action.

[Roger Phillips]

Drawing Against The Drop by Guantes

DATD, which I developed for my own use is presented below, for your persual and comment.

This is a method of drawing and firing against an aggressor who is threatening you with a firearm that is pointed at you , in the 0-3' range and you decide the problem cannot be resolved by any other means. Drawing Against The Drop is not suited to those new to the realm of self defense or firearms, but with an understanding of the principles and practice it can be brought into one's arsenal. It is a high level, high risk manouver for situations where a lethal outcome is likely and the only question is who will prevail. It is based on suprise, speed and angles. This manouver is not meant to replace combatives or disarms but to supplement them.

Many would say that in a close range situation such as we are talking about that combatives or disarms are the answer, not going for your gun. In some cases either of those might be the best option, in others I do not believe it would be. As we age we begin to lose the attributes of self defense. Endurance is probably the first to suffer, followed by strength. It has been my experience that speed, which is essential to Draw Against The Drop, can be maintained longer and easier than the other two. Now let me give you some examples, where I think Drawing Against The Drop would be your best option.

Facing an opponent of say , six foot or larger, around 200 to 240 lbs who is 20 to 30 years old, when you are a male five foot eight, 160 lbs soaking wet and 50+, 60+, etc, in age, or a 5'2" 110 pound female, unless you have a lifetime of martial training and experience, you have a big problem. This problem is only magnified if you have any physical limitation or injury or your opponent recently got out of prison, where he was pumping iron and training for two or three years. I do not believe combatives or disarms would be your best option.

If you are facing an armed aggressor who has one or two unarmed accomplices (not that uncommon), combatives can be a big problem. An soon as you go to a disarm or combatives with the armed aggressor, you can bet the other two will be on you and trying to disable you and help the partner maintain control of his weapon. The rapid elimination of the armed aggressor in an eruption of gunfire may not solve all your problems, although it just may. At the very least, it has eliminated what appeared to be the greatest threat, while leaving you with some capability to deal with the other two, if they stick around. Here again I don't think combatives or disarms would be your best choice.

These are the types of situations where I think DATD outshines other options.

This is not "THE" method for drawing against a gun weilding aggressor, it is "A" method. I can tell you from experience that the principles of this method, if executed properly, do work. It uses simple, easy to learn techniques.

I have not seen this exact method or system described by anyone else so I don't know if anyone else has developed and promotes or teaches the exact same thing. I developed this method for my own use in these types of situations.

Drawing Against The Drop involves five specific and unique elements

1. There is the decision that you will execute a draw against the drop
The actual decision making process I'll leave up to you

2. There is a verbalization to act as a distraction to the aggressor and a que to make your move

3. There is a parry to get the aggressors weapon off line

4. There is a blading of your body to help get it off line from the aggressor's gun in case your parry is not completely
successful

5. There is the quick and efficient access of your weapon and discharge of rounds

Anything that interferes with this works against you, be it clothing, holster, type of draw, weapon platform or anything else

In detail, they are as follows:

The decision process, as I said, I will leave to your own means. Once you have made the decision you need a distraction and a cue. I use a pleading statement like, "Please don't kill me". One word in that sentence is my que. When I hit that word I go.

There are several reasons for this.

One, it gives me a specific go signal for nearly any situation.

Two, the pleading re-enforces the aggressor's feeling of control.

Three, Talking is a distraction and most people instinctively listen for the completion of a thought or sentence, whether intentionally or not, so a good time to attack is while they are focused on the completion of the thought.

The following three elements, the parry, the blading and the draw must begin simultaneously, during the verbalization.

If the blading follows the parry it might be too late

If the draw follows the parry and the blading , it may be too late

They must all occur or at least begin simultaneously

In the parry, I prefer a move from my left to right and down with my off hand. There are several reasons for this.

One, if the aggressor is right handed, which is most likely, it puts me to the outside, away from the aggressors off hand.

Second, I prefer to blade my off side forward so my left to right parry is moving the aggressor's gun in the opposite direction of which my body is moving.

Third, most armed ccw people, including me, are right handed. This means that they usually keep their S-O on their left or off side so as to not interfere with their weapons access. Therefore, I do not want to get in the habit of parrying the aggressor's weapon in the direction my S-O would be.

Should the aggressor be left handed the same actions will work quite well and have the same results, although you will be moving towards the inside and the aggressor's off hand. In addition, more effort must be made to control the aggressor's gun hand, as it is not wedged between the two of you. One thing to note is that the shoulder is not dropped during the parry. The reason for this is that the raised shoulder provides some protection for the face and head against the off hand of a left handed aggressor. The head is also lowered slightly, which protects it against a head butt I prefer using the palm as in addition to the parry it provides the possibility of a controlling grab. The preferred striking point with the parry is the juncture of the back of the hand and the forearm ( the wrist) of the aggressor. Striking higher on the arm may allow the wrist of the aggressor to bend back against the parry while a shot is fired. Striking lower, on the weapon, may work, but you may slip off the aggressor's weapon or you may injure your hand.

In the blading , I believe that blading the off side forward has the most advantages.

The blading does three things.

One, it helps get your body off his line of fire if your parry is not completely successful.

Two, it compliments the left to right parry and it makes your gun more difficult to attack in place or during the draw in its rearward position.

Three, it helps protect you from a knee or kick to the groin by the aggressor.

Blading the off side forward can be aided by a step forward with the off foot which is the method I prefer. In addition to aiding the blading the forward step contributes to forward pressure on the aggressor and puts you in a forward stance which will aid in your stability should the aggressor charge.

The drawing of the weapon is obviously an important part of the technique

I realize that climate, NPE's and clothing requirements and preferences will affect, not only garment selection but holster type and location. Regardless of those constraints, any combination that does not allow you to draw your weapon with one hand in an expeditious manner will impair your ability to Draw Against The Drop or draw in any other combative situation. If the imparment is severe, you should forget the idea of Drawing Against The Drop and concentrate on other alternatives or change your carry method.

The draw used is similar to a draw to the #2 Retention position of South Narc and fire. For lack of anything better I would call it The # 2 Parry Position. The difference is that the gun remains more or less in its original #2 position as the torso blades. What results is that due to the bladed torso the butt of the gun ends up near the sternum instead of the ribs. This brings the lower frame of the gun in contact with the parry arm in the area of the inner elbow. This does several important things.

One, it prevents shooting oneself in the arm.

Two, it makes it more difficult for the aggressor to attack your gun with his off hand.

Three, indexing the weapon on your arm will help prevent your pushing an autoloader weapon out of battery into the aggressor thereby causing a failure to fire.

Once the weapon is indexed on your arm, at least three shots should be fired as fast as you can fire them. This indexing prior to firing is extremely important to prevent shooting yourself in the off arm. The entire action, including the three shots should take about one and a half seconds. Whether you use more than three or more shots to com or a zipper, which is easy to do from the arm indexed poisiton is up to you. Should the aggressor go down, I would either follow him down continuing to control his weapon or I would create movement to make a more difficult target, until I was sure he was out of action.

For a left hander, it is a mirror image with the only difference being that you will be moving to the inside on a right hander and to the outside on a lefty.
Guantes

[Roger Phillips]

Gloves, I am glad that you decided to release this publically. The technique deserves consideration and experimentation. From the work that I have done with it of the past several months, I am very happy with it. I need to run video on it so you can correct or adjust me.

I realize that climate, NPE's and clothing requirements and preferences will affect, not only garment selection but holster type and location. Regardless of those constraints, any combination that does not allow you to draw your weapon with one hand in an expeditious manner will impair your ability to Draw Against The Drop or draw in any other combative situation. If the imparment is severe, you should forget the idea of Drawing Against The Drop and concentrate on other alternatives or change your carry method.

This quote is very important and must be understood. I can see why you are a such big fan of the open front concealment garment. No matter how much practice I put in, I am just not as fast with a close front concealment garment as I am with an open front.

Open front is a true one handed technique and is as fast, sure, and sound as can be. For me the one handed closed front is slower and less sure/solid, YMMV.

Just something that we all need to take into consideration, and test in FOF.

To Gabe and the Admin. We should merge the two threads on this into one. Guantes has a great reply to "reaction time" in the other thread that everyone needs to understand. That thread can be found here, http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...highlight=datd

[Guantes]

Rog,

Thanks for the kind words, coming from you, I really appreciate them.

I would also like to thank Gabe for deciding that the material was of sufficient merit to include in the newsletter.

I firmly believe in the technique, its basis and its present configuration. Others will probably come up with variations which are as good or better. I think when it is tested in FOF, by others, it will demonstrate its viability and dominance in appropriate situations.

I have no intentions of starting another debate on carry methods. There are several methods that have advantages of various types which may suit the needs of the individual. My primary criteria are speed and single handed ease of access. I use what works for me and suspect others do the same.

I believe the, "One Two", concept may be usable in a number of types of drills and scenarios to provide conditions that come closer to mimicking real situations in a training environment.

If you send me a tape I would be happy to critique it for you.

[coastrifle]

FWIW, I think Tom Cruise does a pretty good DATD in "Collateral", taking out multipal BG's. Might be time to break out the DVD for another look see.