Elders say "No tools"...Warrior's prayers needed!

[Dr John Meade]

Originally Posted by Al Lipscomb

That being said I find that the full time cops often don't suit the role as part of a safety ministry. They tend to be "looking for something to do" and go into "COP mode" too easy. The first time a member is threatened with arrest you have a problem that won't be easy to solve. The Safety Ministry is there to protect the flock in submission to Godly leadership, not enforce State or local law.

Excellent point, Al. I will say that I ran the first aid component of a large Christian music festival for several years, and we had some off duty uniformed cops as part of our security team. They were great guys, and absolutely followed the lead of those of us in charge of the event. We had a couple of incidents with "intruders", and the cops showed excellent restraint (ie, didn't do any unnecessary takedowns, Tasers, or such).

Originally Posted by jklinstein

Making them define & document the limits of allowable force will clarify their thinking, and their liability. When they document their limiting of your ability to respond with appropriate force, they are taking on liability for when the security team "doesn't do enough".

I'd prefer to be an attender with a CCW than to be "security personnel" with nothing more than tender words (or even harsh words) in a crisis.

Excellent points! Amazing how often people will back down when you demand they place their "concerns" in writing.