SI 2014 Training
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipw View Post
    I dont know man. I think being mounted on the guy is a pretty good place to be if he happens to try and draw a weapon. If hall had of pulled inverted guard i would agree with you but double leg to mount, i kind of think thats pretty safe if he hasnt already got the knife in his hand.

    As far as multiple attackers goes, yeah that sucks but it sucks no matter what type of fighter you are. Running is the best option against multiple guys. Now this video illustrates a good point that my coach always likes to say when ever the multiple attacker argument comes out. He says "well, ive got friends too". Obviously Ryan Hall did as well.
    During training I've been stabbed during takedowns, even if the knife is hidden or tucked away. Then again, they were expecting the takedown and were trying to stab me during it. Maybe the element of surprise and violence of the takedown is enough.

    Not trying to start any anti-Bjj stuff.
    Stay dangerous, my friends.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Prineville, OR
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    421
    My experience twice when on the ground with someone was very negative. Once I got a cinder block broke over the side of my face, full mount and controle and was pounding the guy into the geound. once I got cut on my thigh very badly while I literally choked a guy till he stopped breathing, they (EMS) used CPR on the guy and him and his two friends got six and seven years for attempted murder. It could have been much worse for me. I was big into the BJJ trend then in the mid 1990s... It was fun...

    You also can't always run and you don't know if his friends are around. Sometimes you are alone, and sometimes his friends are more numerous or more tuff than yours.
    This also isn't anti BJJ Its just a critique based on my experience.
    Last edited by Heywood; 03-22-2012 at 07:11 PM. Reason: I'm not some bad ass martial artist, I was just a little punchy.
    What I believe will happen is one thing.
    What I think will happen is something altogether different.

  3. #33
    Both valid points for sure. You need striking skills as well. Gotta have both. And even then a weapon trumps all.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Florida
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    276

    Default OC spray?

    Please keep this going because I'm trying to figure out how I would best respond to this.

    The big JJ move of going to ground seemed ineffective as a minute later the parties were all standing again and the fight was still on so a 2nd takedown was needed. A self defense technique is justified but pulling a knife or gun could be viewed as "escalation" depending...

    I don't carry it but would pepper spray be effective here? I'm guessing the 2nd take-down wouldn't be needed and the dinner party could easily just leave, unharrassed by the now disabled drunk. Seems reasonable...

    Would it's use in this situation be considered legal?
    Would the user get a good dose of blowback being indoors and in close proximity? I'm guessing yes. I'd also guess they'd need to clear out the whole place for a while...

    Also, before he got up, might he have be justified in a (seated) front kick to the drunk's chin or chest? Would that be effective? I understand that HE was comfortable/confident and wanted to control him and not to strike out to hurt him but for those who don't teach martial arts at that level, would a "strike" have been more effective in convincing him to leave the dinner party alone? I personally don't really want to "control" anyone, I would just want to create enough "cover effect" to get me and mine OTD.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by petmi1 View Post
    Also, before he got up, might he have be justified in a (seated) front kick to the drunk's chin or chest? Would that be effective? I understand that HE was comfortable/confident and wanted to control him and not to strike out to hurt him but for those who don't teach martial arts at that level, would a "strike" have been more effective in convincing him to leave the dinner party alone? I personally don't really want to "control" anyone, I would just want to create enough "cover effect" to get me and mine OTD.
    Im with you. If I felt threatened enough to shoot the double leg and mount I would finish it with strikes to the head if I could. The standard Gracie self defense scenario is take down>mount>strikes to head>finish it with strikes(ground and pound) or if he rolles over, take back and choke him out.
    If he starts to bench press you off you have an armbar but that potentially puts you in a bad spot if you miss it and end up on bottom. Best to maintain mount and punch him or take the back if he gives it to you.

  6. #36
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    Feb 2005
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    Tampa
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    17,861
    Beer Muscules at work......... these guys were nice to him! I haven't that kind of paticents!

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Illinois
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    Quote Originally Posted by petmi1 View Post

    I don't carry it but would pepper spray be effective here? I'm guessing the 2nd take-down wouldn't be needed and the dinner party could easily just leave, unharrassed by the now disabled drunk. Seems reasonable...

    Would it's use in this situation be considered legal?
    Would the user get a good dose of blowback being indoors and in close proximity? I'm guessing yes. I'd also guess they'd need to clear out the whole place for a while...
    IME, typical OC spray deployment would have a widespread effect with significant blowback for precisely the factors you mentioned, indoors and close proximity. If it was used in that situation, I believe several people including the drunk guy would potentially be affected. If you were able to hit someone with a direct stream to the face, they would suffer the worst of it if they were susceptible, burning and involuntary closing of the eyes, difficult breathing, etc. However, people in the close surrounding area would also experience coughing and breathing difficulties unless they moved outdoors pretty quickly.
    Close Range Gunfighting - 9/17,18/2011
    Defensive Knife - 3/24,25/2012
    Point Shooting Progressions - 4/21,22/2012
    0 - 5 feet Pistol Gunfighting - 4/13,14/2013


    You don't fail when you lose, you fail when you quit....

  8. #38
    I dont see practical applications for BJJ unless the bad guys have already taken you to the ground. If i am on my feet i would kick him in the nuts, punch him in the throat or eyes, what ever it takes. This isn't a sport with rules, a simple fight could be life or death so always treat it as such. If you get tackled from behind or taken down by multiple guys then BJJ is definitely good to know.
    Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn

    Police often question him, just because they find him interesting.

    "I mainly work, sleep, eat. sometimes I pee a little"

  9. #39
    Grey Man Guest
    anybody speaking about BJJ ought to have experienced it, its alot like systema in the same vein that people see it and if it doesn't match up to what they train then they get very defensive and close themselves off to learning a great tool in the toolbox. Like anything else its about context and location, that said "you don't know what you don't know"

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Man View Post
    anybody speaking about BJJ ought to have experienced it, its alot like systema in the same vein that people see it and if it doesn't match up to what they train then they get very defensive and close themselves off to learning a great tool in the toolbox. Like anything else its about context and location, that said "you don't know what you don't know"
    Wisdom. I really like the clinch stuff and takedowns I learned when doing Bjj, but the guys I rolled with always wanted to do pure Bjj. They wanted to play a game of chess but on the ground, and I wanted to do other stuff.

    On a tangent, Bjj helps me a lot when clinching (binding) with longswords. Heh.
    Stay dangerous, my friends.

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