A little FN help please
First Im sure Im messing up the nomeclature, to me they were all FN's and each country had their own specific designation; so if what I really mean is FAL's, you no where my confusion starts.
I do know that there are INCH and METRIC pattern guns, and Im told that INCH pattern guns can use (or be made to use METRIC magazines--is that correct???)
I generally prefer the L1A1 "style"; but then Im the guy that tried to join the British Army (wow that was a long time ago...). At one time I owned a L1A1 style rifle complete with pebble grain furniture. It was just another of my "why the heck did I sell that" guns.
So after a long pause Im back looking for a "FN-ish" rifle. Im torn between either a L1A1-ish design and a Congo-ish folder. I just bought a 762x51 BREN (L4A4), it uses inch pattern 30 rnd mags. Ideally a rifle that used INCH pattern mags would be my first choice BUT except for the bunch of 30s that came with my BREN, INCH pattern 20s are a bit harder to find and price-ier than METRIC 20s. Now IF METRIC mags really will work in INCH guns then it doesnt matter, (if they dont is there a way to fit one to the other??) If INCH 20s are gonna be a problem, Im willing to go with a METRIC rifle, even if the mags wont interchang with the BREN.
As for the L1A!-ish style, what Im looking for is the Brit style long flash hider as opposed to the other shorter type(s). Alternatively when I think of the Congo style rifle, Im thinking of a folding stock with an 18inch barrel and a shorter FH. Again my terms may not exactly mesh with the actual items. Im not fixated on an exact particular design, so Im willing to entertain Pros and Cons of either of the two I mentioned OR other types.
Next I suppose come manufacturers, DSA guns all appear to be METRIC; but they refer to type1 and type 2 receivers (what is the difference?). They also offer some guns with an aluminum "lightweight" receiver. Ive never seen the merit of lightweight guns that are gonna be shot a lot with heavy cartridges, is there any real benefit to aluminum?
I understand some of the DSA guns are built from parts kits and some are all new made parts. The parts kit guns are significantly cheaper, any reason NOT to pick one of those?
Who besides DSA makes a good gun?
Is there anything that I should be especially warry about?
Im not sure yet, if I want to scope the rifle; but Im NOT looking for a precision long range rifle, just a general purpose 762x51 as a loose companion to the BREN. This WILL be a field rifle, and it will get used, so Im not looking for some dainty range toy. I can live with some honest wear marks.
Thoughts, suggestions, pointers....
Last edited by EDELWEISS; 01-16-2012 at 12:48 AM.
A couple of answers:
The primary difference between the Type 1 and 2 Upper Receivers has to do with the lightening cuts that each one has. It's important if you're trying to make your FAL look like a particular "correct" variant. If you're just looking for a shooter, it's not a factor.
The DSA lightweight receiver refers to the Lower Receiver (which is not a controlled, FFL-required part). It's not a part that contains chamber pressure, so you're not risking any reliability issues there, just saving some ounces.
DSA is probably the place for an off-the rack new FAL. If you're willing to spend some time, you can get a custom FAL built that's just the way you want it for a comparable price. Arizona Response Systems (who posts here as "gunplumber"), Century Gun Works, Sledgehammer Arms are respected in the FAL world.
Feel free to come by the FAL Files (www.falfiles.com) and learn more.
First thought: Do Bren Mags actually fit the L1A1 SLR (inch pattern rifle)?
Second thought: Aren't there aftermarket flash suppressors/muzzle brakes that are long that fit the FN-FAL (metric rifle)?
A Pointer: The inch pattern mags have a large machined steel 'lip' welded on to the front of the mag that interfaces with a corresponding machined slot in the receiver of the SLR while the metric mags have a smaller 'punch-out' lip on the front that will fit into either rifle. The machined slot on the FAL is smaller than that on the SLR so the inch pattern mag 'lip' is too big to fit it, but the smaller metric lip will fit into the bigger SLR slot.
Suggestion: Go with the Metric since there are more spare and aftermarket parts available and DSA is currently producing new rifles.
The L4A4 (762x51 Bren) uses 30 rnd mags; but 20 rnd L1A1 mags supposedly do fit and can be used. It was supposed to be designed that way when the .303 Bren was changed to the NATO cartridge. Now how well it works is another question, and I wont find out till I try some L1A1 mags in it. As a historical note the ZB26 (from which the Bren was derived, used 20 rnd 8mm mags)
Im familiar with the different "locking" tabs of METRIC vs INCH guns; whether METRIC mags will actually fit in INCH guns (and work), is another question I'll have to find out--unless you guys know? Im also told METRIC receivers can be modified to take INCH mags as well. I think the real question is how well either "swop" will actually work.
Anybody heard of Enterprise? I keep seeing guns made on their receivers. Any good?
What about the Springfield guns? Are they any good?
What issues should I expect from the Century guns? They are mostly older (I think?), Was this before they started pumping out AKs with canted sights etc?
I'll rephrase the question. Do you know for a fact that the Bren 30rd mags fit and work in the SLR? Remember, top feed versus bottom feed, gravity, loose fit, etc. are all parts of the equation as well as mag well fit.
Yes, I have used FAL mags in MY SLR so I can attest that the metrics will fit, feed and work properly. The fit is a little sloppy, but workable.
Entreprise is the correct spelling. Spotty for reliability from all reports.
Springfield Arms? If you mean the SAR48, it is a Brazilian made licensed copy and top quality. The SAR4800 was the Clinton version.
Century guns --- some good some bad. I had one that worked perfectly from day 1 even though it was A mix of mostly Aussie and a few British parts on a Century Canadian made (metric mags) receiver. Some will tell you it all the luck of the draw on what you get.
I will add that used DSA guns are usually pretty good, but I've seen some problems with the early short barrel versions.
The guy who owns Arizona Response used to post here before he became persona non grata. You might check ARS's website.
Originally Posted by P.D.
Know for a fact? NO--Ive just been told that the L4A4 uses INCH pattern L1A1 30rnd mags and Im told that it can also use L1A1 20's. Im less concerned about using the Bren mags in the rifle; but being able to supply the Bren would be beneficial, not necessary but nice to have if possible.
Entreprise was how the seller had it listed
Other than the SAR4800 being "neutered", is it acceptable and reliable?
Any suggestions about L1A1 style Full length vs 18"Congo with folder?
How'bout one type of flash Hider or muzzle break vs another? I generally prefer to lean to the issued types; but Im open to suggestions.
Last edited by EDELWEISS; 01-16-2012 at 08:46 PM.
I like the full length myself, but that's me. Full length SLRs (L1A1s) that people have cut down to shorter barrel lengths need to be properly tuned to function correctly. It wasn't just a matter of lopping off a couple of inches of barrel and re-fitting a flashhider. The 18" 'Congos' or 'paratroop' folders by DSA work.
The SAR 4800 was the same mechanically as the SAR48. It just had different 'Clintonista' furniture.
Flashhiders. The short FN (also SAR48) is good, It works more as a muzzle brake. The long FN looked much like the SLR one but without the bayonet lug. There are some other newer designs out there - aftermarket - that are also pretty good.
while i dont know anything about FAL's... i like the tittle of your thread. its pretty punny! was that on purpose our a bi-product?
I just bought a DSA carbine from an auction, the price was just too good to pass (just over $1000--it also came with 8 mags and spares). Im thinking that Id like to add a folding stock, since I got a good deal on the rifle.
Thoughts on a folder??
Of course theres a L1A1 still calling me and my Sterling needs a companion......