Irish Army re-issuing FALs to sniper teams

[P.D.]

Dale, I don't know about where or when you did Basic, but the only power tool we literally ever saw or used was a floor buffer.

Yeah, there were some shop worn rifles back then, but not many. Over cleaning or dis/assembly was not a common problem. I was once reminded while I was in the Army that one expression for 'being lazy' was 'soldiering'.

[Dale Hunter]

Not just basic, but NG units, etc.(Sorry bro I don't have specific dates and places for these acts of stupidity) The over-cleaning and over-breakdown of small arms is an instituitional inertia problem with the military that prematurely wears out rifles.

Case in point: The USMC took delivery of KAC MK11 (precursor to the M110). These rifles pasted through 6 levels of commands and armorers before being issued to the sniper teams. At every level, the armorers felt the need to check headspace by using a M240 gauge (hey there both 7.62). To do this, they had to punch the one-time use roll pin that holds the ejector in. They then in there infinite wisdom crammed this one-time use roll pin back in. This was done no less than 6 times. The result? Ejection problems with the guns leading to KAC getting the blame for no fault of their own.

My roundabout point: don't think that a 50 year old rifle will perform as well as modern designs. Especially when they have been subjected to the misguided maintence procedures rampant in our military. It is sad but true. Every single person I have ever talked to that got issued the M14 EBR was completely underwhelmed. From accuracy worse than their M4, to bulk, to the fact the military issued Leupold scopes with 168gr BDC even though 168gr ammo hasn't been used in over a decade.

Hopefully the Irish took better care of their rifles. I worked with a gentleman that was on the Aussie service rifle team and one of the main rifle instructors for their army. He hated the FAL. To him they were inaccurate, unreliable, loose, finicky rifles that required a lot to squeeze performance out of them. This was in the time period when they selected the AUG to replace the FAL for front line work.

Worn out guns are worn out guns. Hopefully the IDF don't have worn out guns for the spotters.

[JamesOC]

They did not, Over cleaning and then kicked down to the reserves who did the same thing. I would imagine there may be some that were used by shooting teams or that are in better shape.

[Tengu Joker]

Found a pic, 50.00 model with 21 inch barrel...
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[American Infidel]

The sad part ia most of these FAL's will have worn out parts and barrels and will still be pressed into service like our old M-14's.

Now, if they hand select them or overhaul them with new barrels and such (and add Vltor handguards, decent scope) they can have a decent spotter rifle. Time will tell.....

Some of our OLD M14 after being restocked with a modern stock were getting 3/8" MOA most were 3/4 to 1". I believe anything above 1.5 was sent back to storage. I bet some of those FALs are getting close to 1.5 MOA. Anything less would most likely be sent back to there storage as well. Just because it is OLD doesnt mean it cant shoot good. Hell I have a 03 Springfield that shoots 3/8 all day long and is nearly a 100 years old. Barrel is stamped 7-18 as in 1918. Now imagine if you put a high dollar US Optics sniper scope on her! You would have a hell of a sniper rifle. Would be as fancy as a M21 but still a great platform. The barrel would heat up quick compared to a M21. Now having said that Im sure somewhere down the line a turd or two popped up. They are old and if not properly taken care of or had worn out parts replaced then they would have problems and some did. To me thats the armorers fault and should have been addressed at the time they were "refurbished". Plus Im not a fan of Leopold scopes. They would not be my first or even 2nd or 3rd choice for that matter. I believe most problems with the OLD M14 were related to the Leopold scopes as far as accuracy.

[hermosabeach]

I think the bigger picture- you are the spotter- not the sniper-
Do you want .556 or .308 as your system to cover your 6??????????????