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  1. #1
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    Default -------------------

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    Last edited by BWayne; 10-18-2004 at 10:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    Here is the story:

    MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota (AP) -- A woman allegedly tried to choke a federal air marshal after she became disruptive on a flight from Pittsburgh to Minneapolis, authorities said.

    The air marshal approached the woman, who was allegedly intoxicated, vocal and obnoxious aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 1057 on Tuesday, Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman Jennifer Marty said.

    After the woman continued to be disruptive, she tried to choke the marshal in a later exchange, Marty said. She also kicked the marshal in the groin and bit a law enforcement officer after she was escorted off the plane, Marty said.

    The flight landed at 8:30 p.m. at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport with the woman in handcuffs. She was led off the plane by police and placed in federal custody.

    The extent of the marshal's injuries was unknown.

    Metropolitan Airports Commission spokesman Patrick Hogan said he wasn't sure if the woman was served alcohol on the plane.

    The woman could face federal charges of assault or interfering with a flight crew, he said.

  3. #3
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    This incident is interesting from a police point of view.

    These questions come to mind:

    (1) Why did the FAM get involved in the first place? By doing so he gave away his identity and left himself open to attack and being disarmed by hi-jackers, especially if the "drunk" woman had been part of the hi-jack plan.

    (2) Are FAM's required to get involved in minor disturbances? Or did the FAM do it in violation of SOP?

    (3) This situation highlights a flaw in the system, sure to be noticed by the terrorists. Will the flaw be corrected?

    (4) Obviously the best way to get a gun aboard is to let the FAM carry it on, then create a fake disturbance and take it away from him/her. That being the case, I personally wouldn't want FAM's getting involved in minor disturbances that might be part of the BG's plans.

    creed
    Last edited by Vig Creed; 12-31-2003 at 08:04 AM.

  4. #4
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    I'm with you, Vig. These are questions I would like to know also. Of course we will never know if there were other FAM's on board who did not get involved. I think they almost never travel alone.
    **Mike Ronin on FaceBook**

    **Spero optimus instruo pro pessimus**

    **Out of destruction rises opportunity. We are only defeated when we give up. Never, ever give up. (Phil 4:13)**

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by michael
    I'm with you, Vig. These are questions I would like to know also. Of course we will never know if there were other FAM's on board who did not get involved. I think they almost never travel alone.
    If I may make a suggestion, let's not get into speculation or monday morning quarterbacking here. (Not specifically directed at Vig or Michael.) OPSEC for these gentlemen and ladies is paramount, and some things don't need to be discussed in open forums.

    If the FAM got involved, he did so because he felt it was the proper thing to do within his authority, training and experience. Rather than what-if it to death, let it be what it is.

  6. #6
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    This just go to show you that you meet up with crazy,dangerous and unpredictable people anywhere and everywhere you go. Don't let your guard down.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believeraz
    OPSEC for these gentlemen and ladies is paramount, and some things don't need to be discussed in open forums.
    Give me a break..........
    Unless the people who are discussing this topic on an open forum are FAM's or have inside knowledge of the FAM program, then we are only discussing what is already public knowledge. And if they are FAM's or have inside info, then they are probably breaking several laws and regulations by discussing these issues.
    You really think that you or I, or anyone else on this forum who is willing to speculate on this subject will come up with something that terrorists can't or haven't already thought of?
    Hell it's been on every news channel out there about how if there is one FAM, there is usually two. Remember the flight into JFK where the two FAM's held the whole plane at gunpoint?
    I'd bet you could get a whole butt-load of information on the FAM program with a Google search and some cross referencing, along with a good eye for gathering info.
    And if I can do it, then you can damn well be sure the Terrs. can and have done it.
    The FAM in this particular incident screwed up and gave himself away for no gain. This could have been the perfect "mouse trap" to snag him and his firearm. The program isn't designed to put a street cop in the air, it's to prevent hi-jacking, to be a last line of defense before an F-16 shoves a Sidewinder up the planes ass.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH
    The FAM in this particular incident screwed up and gave himself away for no gain. This could have been the perfect "mouse trap" to snag him and his firearm. The program isn't designed to put a street cop in the air, it's to prevent hi-jacking, to be a last line of defense before an F-16 shoves a Sidewinder up the planes ass.
    The problem is the selection process. Unless its changed the bare bones criteria to be hired (when they started re-hiring after 9/11) was to be between the ages of 21-37 and have a four year degree, in anything.

    So you can have a young person with few life experiances, some education, a little (rushed) training, on an airplane with a gun.:(

    Why does that not fill me with "warm and fuzzies".

  9. #9
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    The selection process went down the crapper after 9/11.
    A deputy from the local SO is now a FAM. This guy was one of the goofiest LCD's (lowest common denominators) I've ever known.
    ...
    I personally think we'd be better off with a much smaller number of much better trained and scheduled FAM's. The current situation is FUBAR.
    ...
    Another idea is to have a group of flight attendants who are trained similarly to corrections officers ie: emphasis on HTH and less than lethal, along with restraint and control techniques. They could be the ones to handle out of control drunks, and belligerent passengers.
    Last edited by JodyH; 12-31-2003 at 08:27 PM.

  10. #10
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    As in ever thing else, when the crunch comes and the need outstrips the pool of qualified, we hire from the gene pool like every one else, and it takes awile to weed out the knot heads, my department and 3 of the local ones lost some very good cops that I know, to the FAM's,and a couple I wouldn't go into a bldg with but they'll be back begging for a job.

    As to the post that they are there for hi-jacking only that is wrong, they are there to respond to any thing on the plane that may cause or has become a problem, and if only 1 was involved then stop and think, where was the other?.

    And for those who don't know, it was just this past month that the FAM's have won their case against the airlines, and they no longer have to board before evryone else, or annoc' them selfs to the flight crew.
    All animals except man know that the ultimate of life is to enjoy it.

    Samuel Butler


    FACIEM TUAM, DOMINC, REQUIRAM

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