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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Chattanooga, TN
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    103
    hope to see the DVD soon
    Long Time Newbie & Training Addict
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  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
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    3,428
    This article is up on the blog now if you guys want to direct folks to it who are not WT members.
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit Instructor
    Glock Factory Certified Armorer
    IDPA Master Class SSP, ESP,CDP, CCP, BUG, CO
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    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mid MI
    Posts
    4,635
    Excellent article Randy!

    Thank you for taking the time to compile this very important information into a very easy to read article.

    I am looking forward to getting the DVD when it comes out.
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
    __________________

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
    __________________

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    175
    Great write up Randy. Looks just like my notes from class. This stuff works.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    61
    Definitely a great read....bookmarked for re-read and future reference!
    Gene
    Disarming victims doesn't solve crime.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    6,823
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Harris View Post
    STOP encroachment........Attachment 17599

    Step to 3 or 9.....Attachment 17600

    We see where stepping off the X and off the line of force now opens up what was previously behind us. If we allow ourselves to get sucked into tunnelling in on the known threat the unknown might be maneuvering up on us......so step to the known threats flank as you talk to check your six!

    From here if they continue to show threat signs I will bust off the X to my 10 o'clock in order to stack them and limit the # 2 man's abilty to engage me. Hopefully he won't shoot through his buddy to hit me......
    Randy,

    These are great posts.

    The only quibble I have is the setup with two guys like this and GOTX to the 10 - I'd go the the 3 and run around the car. Both men would have to negotiate the vehicle to follow you while 10 offers them a clear shot to shoot you or run after you.
    "Four words: We win; they lose."

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
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    There is rarely only ONE right answer. You may go the other way (2 o'clock) and it work out just fine.

    The reason I suggested 10 o'clock is because the guy on the left is not showing signs of being armed yet. The guy on the right is likely pulling a weapon out of that left jacket pocket. I'd rather get away from it and put something (or somebody) between me and it.

    Plus I was ALREADY stepping to 9 o'clock to orbit around "visor man"- the KNOWN threat. So I am already moving that way. I'm not really standing still I'm still orbiting around the first guy. Problem with a pic is it is just a snapshot of a millisecond in time.

    My hips and feet are already turning that way so the movement in THAT direction will be more efficient than turning everything back the other way toward 2 o'clock. If the #2 man just stands there and does not pull hand from jacket I will simply orbit his buddy putting him (visor man) between us and I'll disengage. But if he shows any sign of producing a weapon he's very likely to get shot.

    But yes ,in general, putting a car between you and them would be a good idea.
    Last edited by Randy Harris; 10-28-2011 at 02:00 PM.
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit Instructor
    Glock Factory Certified Armorer
    IDPA Master Class SSP, ESP,CDP, CCP, BUG, CO
    Gung Ho Chuan Association

    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    6,823
    Thanks for the insight.

    I think it was good that you moved to the open area and pinned them against the vehicles. This greatly limits their movements and obstructs their vision creating a great deal of potential unknowns for them. It also allows you to back away.

    In general, you want to use their unknowns against them. The greatest unknown for them is the quadrant from 12 to 3 behind the guy to your right. Neither has any recent knowledge of that area. The guy to your right can see from 12 all the way down to 6 and then behind you. The guy to your left can see from 9 to 3.

    My initial feeling was that the guy on the right had forgotten about the car as he was standing close to it and had moved back a bit. And would run into into it as he turned to follow you to your right. At the very least he would be mentally preoccupied by having the car as an immediate obstacle, too. There may also be an opportunity to charge him and have him step back and run into the car and then you could pin him. He might get task saturated at that point.

    From a purely gunfight standpoint - if he is pulling from a left hand pocket as you say then he will be able to track you easily if you go to your left as he just has to come up and sweep his shoulders. By countering to your right he now has to rotate his body at a high rate and translate away from the vehicle just to even get his sights on you.
    "Four words: We win; they lose."

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
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    3,428
    Quote Originally Posted by austin View Post
    Thanks for the insight.

    I think it was good that you moved to the open area and pinned them against the vehicles. This greatly limits their movements and obstructs their vision creating a great deal of potential unknowns for them. It also allows you to back away.

    In general, you want to use their unknowns against them. The greatest unknown for them is the quadrant from 12 to 3 behind the guy to your right. Neither has any recent knowledge of that area. The guy to your right can see from 12 all the way down to 6 and then behind you. The guy to your left can see from 9 to 3.

    My initial feeling was that the guy on the right had forgotten about the car as he was standing close to it and had moved back a bit. And would run into into it as he turned to follow you to your right. At the very least he would be mentally preoccupied by having the car as an immediate obstacle, too. There may also be an opportunity to charge him and have him step back and run into the car and then you could pin him. He might get task saturated at that point.

    From a purely gunfight standpoint - if he is pulling from a left hand pocket as you say then he will be able to track you easily if you go to your left as he just has to come up and sweep his shoulders. By countering to your right he now has to rotate his body at a high rate and translate away from the vehicle just to even get his sights on you.
    It is easy to overthink this stuff when we just see pics and not see it play out live or even better experience it playing out live.

    The thing is that this ALL takes place in about a TOTAL of 4 seconds from the 1st guy making contact with me to the point where I'm out from between them getting ready to "go".

    Yes we can "study " the pic and look for things to strategize on, but in real time, we simply MOVE and act according to what info they are giving.

    On the tracking.....honestly...IT DOES NOT MATTER at that distance. It is not appreciably harder to track one way or the other. It just isn't. Do it in FOF. If the bad guy is not forced to stand perfectly still then you'll see what I'm saying. Now IF he stands rock solid still without moving either foot then yes theoreticly it may be harder for him to track to the outside of his gun hand but most people will crouch and square up anyway . And if he moves his feet at all (even just a half step changes his shoulder orientation to me) then all bets are off. Which way he will be tracking me is honestly about at the bottom of my list of worries. This is a significant subject in my upcoming DVD on movement in gunfights.

    I like the way you are able to dissect the setup and come up with a strategy based on the environment. That can be very important. So don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm just saying that it happens so fast that they are realizing their plan is not working by the time I'm already out of the hole and IF they try to present a tool I will bust off the X and burn them down before they know what hit them. He probably won't get a chance to track for very long after he takes a burst to the chest and face.

    Speed is your friend here more than strategy. An OK plan carried out quickly and decisively is generally better than a perfect plan carried out a second too slow (to paraphrase Theodore Roosevelt).
    Last edited by Randy Harris; 10-28-2011 at 04:21 PM.
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit Instructor
    Glock Factory Certified Armorer
    IDPA Master Class SSP, ESP,CDP, CCP, BUG, CO
    Gung Ho Chuan Association

    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    503
    This is a great, great article... I think I will traslate it, so my spanish spoken friends here in Argentina can "see the ligth"
    Awerness and the rigth mindset are the most important tools for survive a potencially deadly encounter.
    Thanks for share
    Pablo

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