FAL Accuracy?

[Peter Avery]

I know Knight's Armament Co. and Armalite make their 7.62mm/.308 Win barrels with a 11.25 twist rate. They swear by it to be the best overall, which I'll agree with when KAC makes rifles that will hold sub-MOA out to 800m. I'd love one for my FAL.

[swede62]

As far as wolf goes, I can mag dump steel cases all day, and do so somewhat regularly for entertainment. =]

I wish I could! Once burnt twice shy! It didn't shoot bad about 2.5" at 100yds. in my FAL before it kaboomed it.

[Peter Avery]

I wish I could! Once burnt twice shy! It didn't shoot bad about 2.5" at 100yds. in my FAL before it kaboomed it.

A shame it blew! 2.5" with wolf is pretty astonishing, only thing I ever saw/heard of close to that was 1"-1.25" with a 21" straight jacketed barrel or what ever they called it with all the carbon fiber wrapped around the barrel and all. My groups go to garbage when I shoot those steel cased 150 grain bullets.

[swede62]

A shame it blew! 2.5" with wolf is pretty astonishing, only thing I ever saw/heard of close to that was 1"-1.25" with a 21" straight jacketed barrel or what ever they called it with all the carbon fiber wrapped around the barrel and all. My groups go to garbage when I shoot those steel cased 150 grain bullets.

Funny thing about that is that a Custom built crazy accurate Mauser I had when shooting it looked like a Shotgun pattern. Go figure!

[Peter Pauer]

I just shot my Imbel first time. I was shooting cheap 180gr. PMC SP.
Sitting on the ground, arms supported inside of the legs, iron sights, 27 meters (30yards):
25m3.jpg Top five holes.
Lying on the ground, handguard supported on wooden pellets bag, iron sights, 100 meters (110yards):
100m1.jpg
I was aiming at the bottom edge of the black paper. POI was approx 25cm higher (10 inch). I know that with standard 168gr. FMJ bullet the POI should be the same at 27m and 200m and if you are shooting at 100yards the POI would be approx 6 inches higher. I am just guessing that the POI in my case went so high because of the heavy bullet and therefore slower velocity affected the ballistic curve. Do you guys have any experience with the 180gr. PMC soft tip bullets? Could somebody please post the ballistic data with muzzle velocity and POI at different ranges? What ammo are you using and what ammo fits the FAL best according to your experience?

[Peter Pauer]

Update on my FAL project: Finally bought everything necessary to mount optic. I chosed DSA dust cover + Leupold High QRW 30mm rings + Leatherwood CMR 1-4x24. I like the setup very much. The rifle is heavier but it helped to ballance it a littlebit. I went to range today to zero the optic and at the end was able to shoot 1 MOA group with one flier. I was shooting from prone, using beanbag to support the handguard. I was shooting cheap PMC 180gr. ammo. I am very curious how will the FAL shoot with some match ammo.

[gunplumber]

While is is certainly a nice group, would I be a party-pooper to say 3 rounds in 1" with one flier, is not a 1 MOA group?

5 of 5 rounds in 1 MOA, repeatable, is a 1 MOA group/rifle.

I've seen a whole bunch of beautiful 3 round groups that open up dramatically when a few more rounds are added. Just as I've seen people shoot a dozen groups and pick the best one to report for their rifle. They give me a funny look when I suggest superimposing all their targets for a 50 round pattern and calling that their group.

[Peter Pauer]

I hear you. The group is actually first confirmed zero after I tried to zero the scope for nearly two hours in cold freezing weather. I was not really in a mood to shoot more. I am curious myself how consistend the rifle will be shooting and I am even more curious what performance I will get with some quality match ammo. This group was shot with cheap PMC ammo.

Regarding the groups: Sure you can take a 50 round group as a benchmark but is it still just about accuracy of the rifle? Precise shooting requires concentration and consistency. The more you shoot the bigger shooter error will influence the group because it is lot easier to concentrate for 5minutes than for 50minutes. Another aspect is eyes fatigue. And we didn't even started with other aspects like dirt in the barrel, temperature of the barrel, wind changes etc. So if you want to test the whole package - shooter + rifle + optics + ammo, than it sure makes sence. If you want to minimize the error of the shooter, than I think less round groups are better.

[gunplumber]

little digression: I built a heavy barrel CZ .22 LR for a buddy and was testing it. first 5 rounds in one ragged hole. Each successive round was harder than the last. The 10th round was the worst. I was really sweating. Because the first 9 were through one ragged hole . . . would I blow it with the tenth? (I didn't). Anyway, I was relating this story to one of my mentors who is a competitive high-power shooter. He told me that what I experienced was the psychological failing of competitive shooters. The 10th round is worth no more or less than the first. Like in golf, the last putt isn't worth any more than the first (although like in target shooting, there is something to respect about maintaining a high level on concentration over an extended period of time). Or in Congress, the last vote cast is worth exactly the same as the first vote cast. The last one to vote has no more influence on the outcome than the first one to vote. Imagining it is, puts undue mental stress on the shooter and causes him to choke.

So it is a fair question to ask how many rounds prove the gun, and how many may show a weakness in the shooter and not the gun? I just can't see three rounds as being meaningful in any way. I don't consider it "statistically significant". Does it have to be 50 rounds? I don't know. But I think the extreme spread of 10 x 5 round groups is hard to argue with - either in the capability of the rifle or the shooter. I think 50 rounds is enough to say that the rifle/ammo/shooter "team" is capable of x MOA, while 3 rounds or even one 5 round group could be a fluke.

[chronic]

Here is another thread on FAL accuracy.
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...FAL&highlight=

chronic