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  1. #21
    Grey Man Guest
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    He is quite invested in that serpa holster . . . least it makes work semi-interesting

    I think the SERPA holster is an amazing product . . . IN HOW IT WAS ADVERTISED!

    Other than that it pretty much sucks . . ..

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Colorado
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    85
    I have one of these for EDC for my Glock 23; looks like I will have to go back to a thumbreak. Has anyone here used the Fobus with the thumb lever? Fobus looks flimsy but I have heard that they are pretty tough.
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr John Meade View Post
    What I find most interesting is that the OP seems to be emotionally invested in the Serpa holster. Regardless of the opinions and experiences of others, he is dead-set on defending the system. If I have a gun, holster or other gear that I like, but others (who I trust) have had very negative experiences with that gear, I would consider that pretty strongly. I might not rid myself immediately of that gear, but I would wonder if I was simply lucky, or if perhaps the other's experiences would prove true in time.
    It seems to me that he is simply reporting on the basis of his experience and the experience of others he is aware of. The simple fact is that vastly more people have not had issues with SERPA holsters than have had issues with them. I have not had any issues with mine, and none of the other people I know who use them have had any issues. The fact that he is not completely discounting his personal experience because some people disagree with him, may not be due to emotional attachment, but rather, due to rational considerations. I don't doubt that some people have had issues with SERPA holsters; but, then again, people have had issues with every other type of retention holster out there as well.

    Lastly, one needs to remember that needs are dependent on circumstances. As mentioned, the pistol hoster requirements for a sniper will be very different than for an IPSC shooter, which will be very different from a CCW guy. I own a thigh rig (Safariland), but only use it with my SWAT gear. Different situations, different needs.
    I absolutely agree with this. Some gear may be more appropriate for one circumstance than for another. If you don't need a retention holster, don't get one (SERPA or otherwise). If you do need a retention holster, I believe that the SERPA is a very viable (albeit imperfect) choice. I have come to this conclusion after trying other retention systems under stress over the course of years, as well as taking the experiences of others into account. It seems to me that the same sort of evaluative process has led many people here to embrace the AK platform, even though many others disagree and see "issues" with it.
    Last edited by hogdog; 12-22-2010 at 09:22 AM. Reason: clarity

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr John Meade View Post
    What I find most interesting is that the OP seems to be emotionally invested in the Serpa holster. Regardless of the opinions and experiences of others, he is dead-set on defending the system. If I have a gun, holster or other gear that I like, but others (who I trust) have had very negative experiences with that gear, I would consider that pretty strongly. I might not rid myself immediately of that gear, but I would wonder if I was simply lucky, or if perhaps the other's experiences would prove true in time.

    Lastly, one needs to remember that needs are dependent on circumstances. As mentioned, the pistol hoster requirements for a sniper will be very different than for an IPSC shooter, which will be very different from a CCW guy. I own a thigh rig (Safariland), but only use it with my SWAT gear. Different situations, different needs.
    I don't think that's a fair statement. I'm having a discussion. I've articulated my reasons for using the SERPA and I've said nothing about being "emotionally" attached to it. If I have a conversation about a product that works for me, I'm emotionally attached (ignorant) in your estimation. While you didn't come right out and say I am ignorant, the implication is clear with the "emotionally attached" comment. That implies I'm too ignorant to make an informed opinion about my hands on experience with something and I should disregard that experience and place more weight on someone else's experience that contradicts my own.

    Again, interesting perspective.

    If I ditched every piece of gear because of what I read on the internet vs. actually using it and deciding if it works for me or not, I would have a constant cycle of new gear coming and going from my possession. I know some folks live and die by what someone else tells them, I on the other hand prefer to operate by evaluating something personally and deciding for myself what works and what doesn't. Now, if by taking one of your courses the SERPA system failed me, I would seriously consider another option. Thus far I've had no failures therefore see no reason to ditch what I have because I've read how much it sucks on the internet.

    I think if anything, I'm pretty level headed and straight forward when I encounter problems. My videos confirm that. I'm not some brand whore that blindly accepts inferior products should I discover, through my own use, it's in fact defective or inferior. I call a spade a spade, period.

    Since Gabe has banned SERPA's from his courses, I will never know if it would pass one of your courses or not. Unfortunate, as I would look forward to the learning experience this summer when I plan on taking a few courses. It looks like I'll be forced to buy something I'm unfamiliar with to use a pistol in one of your courses for a day or two.
    Last edited by Sturmgewehre; 12-22-2010 at 09:27 AM.

  5. #25
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    Oct 2010
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    312
    Quote Originally Posted by hogdog View Post
    [B]It seems to me that he is simply reporting on the basis of his experience and the experience of others he is aware of. The simple fact is that vastly more people have not had issues with SERPA holsters than have had issues with them. I have not had any issues with mine, and none of the other people I know who use them have had any issues. The fact that he is not completely discounting his personal experience because some people disagree with him, may not be due to emotional attachment, but rather, due to rational considerations. I don't doubt that some people have had issues with SERPA holsters; but, then again, people have had issues with every other type of retention holster out there as well.
    Thank you.

    I'm far from emotional about this issue, but obviously others are quite emotional. I'm not so heavily invested in a product that I feel compelled to degrade others' opinions that don't necessarily jive with my own.
    Last edited by Sturmgewehre; 12-22-2010 at 09:29 AM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    312
    Don, I'm still interested in a response to this point.

    Don, to your point, I don't believe in every situation you would only reholster your pistol if there are no remaining threats. One may transition to their pistol, and conversely, there might be an occasion where transitioning from the pistol back to the rifle is required. That depends on why you transitioned to the pistol in the first place. If we assume you only transition to the pistol should the rifle become inoperable, then it's safe to assume you will only reholster that pistol once you feel no threats are still present. But if you transition to the pistol for any other reason and your rifle is still operable, then getting back to the rifle as quickly as possible should be at the forefront of your mind. Not having to reengage a retention system in this scenario would be beneficial, IMHO.
    As for the SERPA, I will take it out when weather permits and do everything to it I can think of including dunking it in the river, mud, sand, and heck - even snow since I have plenty of that now. I'll report the complete results and not hide any of my findings.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr John Meade View Post
    I didn't call you ignorant, because I don't feel you are ignorant. Unless you insist on picking fights with those who are simply trying to "have a discussion". Then THAT would be ignorant.
    Now I'm picking fights?

    If by expressing my opinion, sharing my experiences, and not personally attacking anyone who disagrees with me, you consider that "picking fights"... then I guess I've been picking fights like a mad man.

    If anything, you've escalated the discussion from a casual and rational conversation among friends to making statements that are potentially inflammatory. The "emotionally attached" comment, IMHO, was unwarranted and intended to excite the discussion. If not, I apologize but I did take offense to that statement.

  8. #28
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    Oct 2010
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    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr John Meade View Post
    You have solidified my opinion beyond anything more that needs be said. Thank you.
    You're an unpleasant fellow, one that's apparently incapable of even saying "I'm sorry for the misunderstanding". But hey, at least you're not the marketing director.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Colorado
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    I've carried both the safariland and the serpa thigh rigs in theater. We went to the SERPA because after an equivalent amount of training, it was less likely to be fumbled than the bail. Then we discovered that indeed, if you shovel it full of rocks, the serpa latch can become blocked beyond an immediate fix. The safariland bail can get jammed with bigger stuff, but it usually knocks out relatively quickly. To clarify on the need for even putting it on your thigh, the thigh rig was optional based on the amount of vest gear that had to be carried for your function in the team. Our solution was two-fold...

    One, wear the holster properly, which usually means, in the case of the serpa, thaking off the upper leg strap to allow you to get the pistol high enough. They should be called "lower hip" instead of thigh holsters, then maybe we wouldn't see so many folks running around with the thing at knee level. You shouldn't have to lean to the holster side to reach the doggone pistol. Keeping it high keeps it from flopping and keeps it out of the dirt.

    Two, and this one may be a non starter if you are really talking retention, but some folks, me included, would slowly round the corner of the retention latch until the pistol could be pulled free with a concerted effort, even if the latch were completely blocked with debris. The pistol was still held very securely in the holster, but could be muscled out. In this context, anyone attempting a grab would get a nimravus or safemaker across the hand/arm and then in the throat, and/or a buttstroke/muzzle strike followed by a mag dump into the chest/head. Also, if someone did manage to rip it off the panel, I was not too concerned that I wouldn't be able to respond appropriately before they got it out to be able to employ it, and anyone that got close usually met with other forms of behavior modification prior to being in position to give it a try.

    It may not be a perfect system but it was very fast, and with lots of dry practice, I never had a problem clearing kydex the two dozen or so times I drew the pistol in anger. Of note is that I only fired it once out of those times, it was usually a behavior modification tool that came out in reactionary situations, so although it was high stress and sometimes in weird positions, I'm not saying it was in gunfight situations. YMMV. I lived with that holster when I was carrying it professionally, shot gun games with it, etc., to stay on top of the draw mechanics, and never had an issue. Not saying it couldn't happen, or didn't happen in pushing the limits in practice, but it happened with the safariland bail also. Security in the holster and the drawbacks of various retention devices as relates to speed and failure modes is a continuum that you have to pick a spot on if you carry on the thigh for whatever reason, and the serpa worked for me. A lot of guys that carried safariland would cut out a portion of the bail so that it barely caught the pistol to prevent issues and fumbles in the manipulation of that.

    I don't carry any serpa holsters right now, as I don't need that sort of carry, but I still consider it a viable tool if you understand all the drawbacks, just like other retention systems.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    4,916
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehre View Post
    It's good to see that not everyone here has had a bad experience with the SERPA. It stands to reason that most people don't given the popularity of the product. The market has a way of weeding out inferior products, either by declining popularity or via litigation (in the case of people shooting themselves due to a faulty design, clearly a case for a class action lawsuit if a common occurrence).
    Try applying that logic to the AR/AK/pistol market.
    "May your foes be strong enough to keep you sharp"
    - Mass Effect

    "Well maybe you just need to get a little tougher"
    -Gabe Suarez discussing the AK in the Kalashnikov Rifle Gunfighting DVD

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