Proof that this Works?

[Dr John Meade]

Doesn't look like this hand would be much use to me

Actually, such an injury is ugly, but not a fight-stopper. First, I don't see that the tendons are cut completely. Secondly, if cut, they are only the little and ring fingers, not the more important middle, index and thumb. Thirdly, even if they were, those tendons are on the extensor side. If you cut them, the person cannot open his hand. If the hand had a weapon in it, the grip (flexion) is unopposed. It is much better to cut the tendons on the flexor side (palm side), up in the wrist, so the attacker can no longer grasp his weapon, or even make a fist.

[Al Lipscomb]

I agree with the analysis there Doc, that is what I was taught in the bio-mechanical techniques I went through (I know, not as rigorous as medical school, but what the heck). The cut to the inside of the lower arm result it the loss of grip. This can be done with knife or even a handgun discharge.

[Randy Harris]

And as always.....THINGS ARE COMPLEX.

Just like with the reference to Applegate and bleed out rates, people want nice tidy bumper sticker sized answers. Violence does not work that way.

SOME people are going to be stopped when they see the first drop of their own blood.

SOME people are going to have to be disassembled to stop them. We just never know.

If they stop with a cut to the arm then that is great. If they drop with a slash to the quad that is great. Just like with a pistol. If they drop with 1 shot fine...but I do not EXPECT them to. I EXPECT to have to shoot them (or cut them or stab them) multiple times for them to get the message.

If they do not, then we must be mentally prepared to keep fighting and hit whatever target presents itself ...including vital organs.

Once the knife comes out we are using lethal force...even if we just cut them a little. We do not want to get bogged down in trying to ONLY cut them a little to "defend " ourself. If the arm slash and quad slash do not drop them then we need to look to other targets without standing there wondering why it didn't work. The arm and quad are the first targets not the ONLY targets.

Some folks are just tough motorscooters....be prepared to have to cut them more than once or twice.

[Shdwdncr]

...SOME people are going to have to be disassembled to stop them. We just never know....

Exactly. Just like this guy here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXY9TuuwyL8

S.

[Chris Upchurch]

Just like with the reference to Applegate and bleed out rates, people want nice tidy bumper sticker sized answers. Violence does not work that way.

"If violence isn't working for you, you're obviously not using enough of it."

[noflyers]

Here's a healed Atlanta post-mugging attempt.

When this one happened I had the guy's arm almost trapped but when he pulled back the cut happened. I could not very well straighten my arm enough to release the trap quick after that (hence the other little cuts and scratches), push him back or reach for my own strong side knife for that matter, it pretty much made my right arm stay bent and mostly useless because of the deep triceps cut! It wasn't cut all the way but I do remember that instantly I could not use it like I wanted to.

IMG_0333 (2).jpg

If I had received this as an attacker/criminal, I assure you that I would have quit my foolishness ASAP and questioned my choice in targets! As the recipient it did not prevent me from continuing!

BTW This was an excellent bleeder and an impromptu TQ was used. Lesson learned- Have First-Aid supplies handy in your vehicle!

[Steven Spaugh]

Here's a healed Atlanta post-mugging attempt. IMG_0333 (2).jpg

If I had received this as an attacker/criminal, I assure you that I would have quit my foolishness ASAP and questioned my choice in targets! As the recipient it did not prevent me from continuing!

BTW This was an excellent bleeder and an impromptu TQ was used. Lesson learned- Have First-Aid supplies handy in your vehicle!

I'm curious how this incident ended, other than needing medical attention. Did you defeat the mugger, or were you forced to give up your goods?

[Al Lipscomb]

There are some who think that the bio-mechanical cutting can become the sole technique for defensive knife work. That tends to cause arguments and the baby getting thrown out with the bathwater. The concept of bio-mechanical cutting is to expand the number of target areas and understand how they can work to your advantage. Shooting the trigger finger of your opponent in a gunfight may not be a fatal hit, but it could sure give you an advantage if he can no longer work the gun.

If I had a big guy trying to do a prison yard drill on me I would not be trying to cut the inside of his forearm to make him stop. But if I was all tied up with someone and I could get my blade onto his arm I might go for that cut and hope it shut him down a bit rather than trying to fight for a position with the blade that I may not be able to get.

[Ian49]

There are some who think that the bio-mechanical cutting can become the sole technique for defensive knife work. That tends to cause arguments and the baby getting thrown out with the bathwater. The concept of bio-mechanical cutting is to expand the number of target areas and understand how they can work to your advantage. Shooting the trigger finger of your opponent in a gunfight may not be a fatal hit, but it could sure give you an advantage if he can no longer work the gun.

If I had a big guy trying to do a prison yard drill on me I would not be trying to cut the inside of his forearm to make him stop. But if I was all tied up with someone and I could get my blade onto his arm I might go for that cut and hope it shut him down a bit rather than trying to fight for a position with the blade that I may not be able to get.

My thoughts exactly. We quite often use a gunting (crossada) In PTK, and follow up with neck comma cuts.

Thanks all (especially Mr.Janich, that explanation and article was great) as I really wanted to figure this all out. This thread hands down has great MBC info

[noflyers]

I'm curious how this incident ended, other than needing medical attention. Did you defeat the mugger, or were you forced to give up your goods?

I walked rather quickly away and he didn't! Somebody had found a cop quite close around the corner and they picked him up quite literally from the sidewalk while I waited for the ambulance. I recovered fine!

I realized later how nasty that could have been! Muscles cut- yes and a lot of other stuff but I think a key difference was that I was the victim and not the perpetrator, I did not have a choice to quit at that moment and run because we were just too close I think that most criminals, if they had received that wound, would quit because the odds are now seriously against them. When this started by the way I thought he was reaching to get my wallet and did not see the knife when I initially trapped his arm, so it is sort of my mistake that I got sliced by my choice of action.

EDIT: Left the important part out above. The guy got tripped when I kicked his legs trying to get out of there and when he fell he hit his head pretty bad, that is why he had to literally be picked up! There were no super cool ninja moves involved!