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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Jacksonville, Fl.
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    66

    Default Help with bullet guide?

    HELP!!! Just received parts kit the other day and was looking at the front trunnion. It does not appear to have a bullet guide riveted in it. It's a Bulgarian AK 74 front trunnion for an AK 74 build in 5.45x39mm, using a Nodak Spud receiver.

    Some looking on the internet has revealed bullet guides for sale in 5.45x39 yet the face of the trunnion looks to be shaped the same as the guides I am seeing. I haven't cleaned the grunge off of the trunnion yet as no time to do any work with grandkids all around the place for the next couple of days, but it still doesn't appear as if there is anything riveted in the trunnion yet it still looks like the feed lip of the bullet guides shown in pictures.

    Now the big question, does a rifle need a bullet guide (as in a separate piece riveted in place) or are they just to correct problems? Shouldn't a trunnion from a working gun already have the guide in place? Kit came without barrel and receiver. Would the guide have been removed with the barrel? If so shouldn't there be a hole where the rivet was to hold it in place?

    I'll see what I can do to clean things up and get a better look and maybe get a pic or two if I can figure out how to upload them.
    ....you close your eyes and breathe your last,..... now you stand before Almighty GOD, it's judgment day. Still have "no fear"?

    But you shouldn't be so concerned about perishable things like food. No, spend your energy seeking the eternal life that I, the MESSIAH, can give you. For God the Father has sent me for this very purpose. John 6:27

    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    1,573
    supposedly the true 100 series feed directly from the mag so don't need a bullet guide - they use a round rivet to initiate bolt rotation. Yet the SAIGA I'm working on that appears to be a 100 series has the groove for the bullet guide.

    I've never seen a '74 kit that was missing a bull guide. If it is, they came in two types - rectangular groove trunion and round.
    T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
    Arizona Response Systems, LLC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE Va
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    692
    Most often, the rivet is ground flush, and is difficult to see. The easiest is to see the edges where it will sit higher than the trunnion. Make sure you get the gunk well cleaned out.
    Gunsmith for Unique Armament Creations
    Class II/ 07 SOT Manufacturer
    Glock Advanced Armorer

    Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers.
    Liberty is a Man-Of-War, and we are all crew.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
    supposedly the true 100 series feed directly from the mag so don't need a bullet guide - they use a round rivet to initiate bolt rotation. Yet the SAIGA I'm working on that appears to be a 100 series has the groove for the bullet guide.
    This is incorrect. All military AK-100 series weapons have the bullet guide. The Saiga civilian weapons do not have the bullet guide to stay out of a legal grey area (bullet guide means you can take high capacity magazines, meaning it's not a sporting weapon, meaning it's not importable). The magazine on the Saiga weapons is designed differently, with a higher front lip to act as a makeshift bullet guide. Any 7.62x39 Saiga will require a bullet guide, and a 5.45 weapon may have trouble if one is not added.
    Quote Originally Posted by pecostx View Post
    Now the big question, does a rifle need a bullet guide (as in a separate piece riveted in place) or are they just to correct problems?
    The weapon needs a bullet guide.
    Quote Originally Posted by pecostx View Post
    Shouldn't a trunnion from a working gun already have the guide in place?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by pecostx View Post
    If so shouldn't there be a hole where the rivet was to hold it in place?
    Yes.

    There's really no reason why somebody would make a parts kit and NOT have a bullet guide, you'd have to do a ton of work just to remove it... and there'd be no reason to. When you make a parts kit, you cut the receiver... the front part should have the barrel (or part of the barrel nowadays...) and front trunnion, rear sight block, and the front part of the receiver WITH the bullet guide riveted in. You'd have to drill out and remove the bullet guide... and again, for what purpose? No purpose. I bet you $20 you have a guide in there and you're fine :)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
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    1,573
    Quote Originally Posted by CumbiaDude View Post
    This is incorrect. All military AK-100 series weapons have the bullet guide.

    While it makes sense to me, it was in the Grim Reaper that I read the AK-100 fed directly from the magazine.

    Not having a real one at my disposal, I couldn't verify it for myself.
    T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
    Arizona Response Systems, LLC

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    66
    (haven't figured out how to reply with a quote or partial quote yet) But not that I couldn't use the twenty bucks, because I can, but after turning the trunnion over and over I do believe there might be a rivet on the bottom side of the trunnion. With all the gunk cleaned off I'm sure it will be there as there is a discernable hard lump under some of the gunk that is suspisiously about the same size as a rivet. So I believe your twenty is safe from me at this time. Grandkids are getting ready for bed so I might be able to let grandma let me have a little time out in the garage to investigate this some more.

    Like you said, to what purpose would someone take out a guide from a working gun? Didn't sound right so I asked of the many who would/should know.

    Thanks!
    ....you close your eyes and breathe your last,..... now you stand before Almighty GOD, it's judgment day. Still have "no fear"?

    But you shouldn't be so concerned about perishable things like food. No, spend your energy seeking the eternal life that I, the MESSIAH, can give you. For God the Father has sent me for this very purpose. John 6:27

    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
    While it makes sense to me, it was in the Grim Reaper that I read the AK-100 fed directly from the magazine.

    Not having a real one at my disposal, I couldn't verify it for myself.
    Yeah, it wouldn't make any sense NOT to have a bullet guide... that'd make all your (20 zillion?) bakelite AK-74 mags incompatible with the AK-74M, not to mention the export market (the real purpose of the entire rest of the 100-series... They're going to use the metal mags they have, not buy a zillion polymer mags to replace the zillion metal mags just because of an unneeded design change). :)

    Here are some pix (not taken by me) of a Ukranian deactivated AK-74M: notice the bullet guide and the magazine. Now, these are from a deact rifle, so the chamber is screwed up in the first pic, and the feed lips are cut off in the second, but the bullet guide is untouched in the first, and the front of the magazine is untouched in the second, showing that it's a standard mag. The Saiga magazines don't have the lowered area in the front, it's flat from the area that contacts the lugs all the way across the front.

    :)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by pecostx View Post
    (haven't figured out how to reply with a quote or partial quote yet)
    Press the button at the bottom right that says "quote" or, press the button with the + next to it to quote multiple posts from different people.

    Also, check out the pic in my previous post labelled "bullet guide", it'll show you one variation of what you're lookin' for! :D

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CumbiaDude View Post
    Press the button at the bottom right that says "quote" or, press the button with the + next to it to quote multiple posts from different people.

    Also, check out the pic in my previous post labelled "bullet guide", it'll show you one variation of what you're lookin' for! :D
    yeah I get that part, but how do I get just the section or part of the quote? Also how do you add the pictures? (seems I know just enough about the computer to get myself in trouble or stuck)
    ....you close your eyes and breathe your last,..... now you stand before Almighty GOD, it's judgment day. Still have "no fear"?

    But you shouldn't be so concerned about perishable things like food. No, spend your energy seeking the eternal life that I, the MESSIAH, can give you. For God the Father has sent me for this very purpose. John 6:27

    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by pecostx View Post
    but how do I get just the section or part of the quote?
    Quote the whole thing then delete what you don't want :D Also, look at the tags that get added [quotе=pecostx;1044713]. Then to close it, you just add [/quotе] You can do this multiple times!

    Quote Originally Posted by pecostx View Post
    Also how do you add the pictures?
    There are a couple options there, you could link to another site, or you could upload it into the post. I have mine on a Photobucket account, then I just use the hyperlink. If you wanted to put it in the post itself, and upload it to the forum, I think you click the little paperclip up at top (to attach the file to the post). My Photobucket is way bigger than the space on the forum, though, and that way I can 1. link one file on multiple places and 2. not use up all of Gabe's bandwidth :D
    Last edited by CumbiaDude; 10-22-2010 at 05:57 PM.

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