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Thread: ACOG on the AK?

  1. #41
    JackBurton86 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Upchurch View Post
    It really depends on your context. If you are fighting inside your house, the Aimpoint is definitely superior. The ACOG can be made to serve, but this isn't really it's intended niche. If you're shooting out at 200 yards or more, the ACOG is definitely the way to go. An Aimpoint can hit at those distances, but unless you're on a range with obvious targets the lack of magnification is going to make things difficult. At intermediate ranges (say 25-150 yards) both will serve fairly equally.

    Consider what you want to do and decide which system to go with. Or just get two rifles.
    Thanks for the thoughts, Chris. I look forward to your Point Shooting class next weekend.

  2. #42
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    I think the ACOG is a far more "general purpose" optic than the Aimpoint. The aimpoint excells at CQB but the ACOG surpasses it at anything outside CQB. As well the ACOG can keep up close to the Aimpoint. The ACOG is about two and a half times more than the Aimpoint however.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBurton86 View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts, Chris. I look forward to your Point Shooting class next weekend.
    Excellent. I can bring out my AK with an Aimpoint/Ultimak combo for you to have a look at.

  4. #44
    JackBurton86 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Upchurch View Post
    Excellent. I can bring out my AK with an Aimpoint/Ultimak combo for you to have a look at.
    Sounds great! I have only had a chance to play with ARs with red dots so far. Thanks for the help.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post

    Well, "short to medium range" means different things. Exactly what does it mean to you? Is a rifle/round that you can hit to 100 yards fit that description? How about 300 yards? 400 yards? We do that all the time with the AK. Rather than argues about gas systems, I suggest getting out and shooting it. Unless one is simply sh*tty shot, they will see what I am saying....that inside 300 yards...maybe even to 400, the 7.62 will do fine...meaning it will hit.

    In the real world of urban or rural, you will have a hard time seeing anyone at 500 yards bro. We did an experiment at a recent class. We had one of our staff walk out as the students scanned/glassed him. As soon as he broke off the KD range and into the brush, he virtually became invisible at 300 yards. Moreover, working snipers report the majority of sniping....sniping not assault rifle work, is taking place inside 500 yards. So strong 300 yard capability is just fine for me.

    Well...owning a rifle also means different things bro. I own rifles too but I suspect in a different way. May I suggest that if you do not care for the 7.62x39 that there are lost of other places on the internet where people will agree with you vociferously. This is noit one of those places.

    it means just that, inside 300 yards where - as you say - is about the limit of where you can see w/the naked eye. 400 yards is iffy, and I just dont see 500 yards on a person sized target happening.

    And yes, owning and shooting mean different things, allow me to clarify, I shoot my rifles often, and ranges beyond 500 yards on a regular basis.

    Also, please dont take my comments about the Kalashnikov rifle or 7.62x39 round as negative, it's great for what it was designed for... but not a medium to long range weapon.

    The gas system does flop around a great deal with that rifle and that round, i'm sure you've seen the vids where this happens, and I suspect this - along with bullets that have a low ballistic coefficient - make it incapable of repeatable 500 yard accuracy.

    My reason for saying this is the best AK I've seen was 3MOA accurate at 100 yards, so at 500 you are talking 15", and that's before the little gremlins with stability start playing with the low BC bullet when it enters the transonic range.


    Again... I'm not saying I dont like the rifle, I've got an integral 7.62x39 on order from Red Jacket right now... it will be my primary home-defense rifle and I'll shoot nigh-time carbine matches with it also.... I foresee it will be one of my favorite guns.

    But, 500 yards, c'mon bro.. Really????

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooDoomanJapan View Post
    My reason for saying this is the best AK I've seen was 3MOA accurate at 100 yards, so at 500 you are talking 15", and that's before the little gremlins with stability start playing with the low BC bullet when it enters the transonic range.
    We've seen some AKs do considerably better than that.

  7. #47
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    Chris, I'd like to know more about that... can you tell me what kind of ammo was being used, BBL length, who built the gun, etc?

    Thanks!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooDoomanJapan View Post
    Chris, I'd like to know more about that... can you tell me what kind of ammo was being used, BBL length, who built the gun, etc?
    Its not all that uncommon to see folks talking about better than 3 MOA groups around here. The most accurate AK I've seen referenced on WT is probably the onne Gunplumber talks about in this post.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Upchurch View Post
    Its not all that uncommon to see folks talking about better than 3 MOA groups around here. The most accurate AK I've seen referenced on WT is probably the onne Gunplumber talks about in this post.
    Hmm... that's an interesting post but I'm kind of weary of the .3 (or less) BC bullet, a .308 bullet at that, stabilizing in an AK barrel.. not too mention about the of pressure of that round would be approaching with 32 grs. H335, that's near max case capacity. However I have not ran the calcs on it so I do not know.

    I also noticed in that thread that people are talking about harmonic balancers on the action, and modifying the gas system and top cover, which I mentioned in my 1st post referencing how Jim Clark, JR. stabilized the MINI-14 20 years ago.

    I really wish I knew more about that round, and what it was chronoed at... so we could see what it did at long range.
    I'm guessing that a 77grn SMK as shot from the Mk12 SDM/R will have much more energy at 500-600 yards and still be sub MOA at that distance.

    But, it's all a moot point really, who shoot's an AK-47 at 500 yards?
    I've got a bolt-action .308 shooting 175grn SMK's and looking to have William Roscoe build me a .300wm for extreme long range work that will be able to push a .208 AMAX supersonic even at 1 mile, with safe pressures and still have more energy at 1500 yards than a magnum revolver has at the muzzle.

  10. #50
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    I'm reading a Lapua max load that only pussed the 123grn 2300fps and it was OVER 52000 pressure, guess how many grains of powder that was using.. 26!!!!

    I'm calling BS on the 32grns of powder, that would bring a whole new meaning to the word "boom stick"

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