Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    789

    Default counter-Ambush Car Tactics

    Hi



    Sadly every day that I read the news paper here in PR I read of another murder that took place in a car. As I have seen the new tactic that the BG are using here is to drive up to the side and fire a mix of Handgun and rifle fire at the intended victim with out regard for by standers and in some cases the target was a mistake of identity hitting an innocent, they also tend to hit when one is stopped at a red light hitting from the drivers side. What would be the best tactics to counter one of these types of attack? I know that awareness in the main tool, seeing the attack before it can materialize. The main tools used by the BG are AK47, 9mm HG and .40 HG. The tactics I think I would use in case Iím on the move and see one would be to hit the breaks and stopped in a positing in witch I can use my SUV as cover or move in to a near exit and get to a position of advantage again using my SUV as cover. Your ideas and suggestion are greatly appreciated.



    Regards,

    Carlos
    Last edited by CPerez; 01-22-2005 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,506
    Your car/SUV is not cover from AK rounds. Stopping makes you an easier target.

    If in motion, go fast, drive evasively. If stopped with a clear path, go fast, drive evasively. If boxed in, find cover, shoot as appropriate.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    202 Metro
    Posts
    24,089
    The number one rule of vehicle ambushes is to not stop the vehicle unless you absolutely must. Movement is a tactic in and of itself.

    I get the impression that you are describing "hits" as opposed to carjackings. Essentially targeted victims through and through as opposed to random attacks on civlians.

    The reality is PR is a violent place. Its' the most dangerous place in the USA to be a cop.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    789
    So the best approach would be to keep driving aggressively and not stop. I believed that when they started shooting was to stop so that they keep moving forward and make it difficult for the to keep shooting, turn around and head the other way or thru an exit, if movement is impossible by traffic I would get out, get behind the front part of the vehicle where the motor is and engage them when they came after. What other tactics one can use in a situation like this?



    Cold War Scout



    Your are right on al count these are mostly hits but many time the wrong person in shot and also bystanders are also hit. I hope to never have to engage an AK wilding opponent but one has to train and be prepared for the worst. Sadly cops are getting less and less training lately here in PR. I hope that new Chief of police will change this.



    Cheers,

    Carlos

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    202 Metro
    Posts
    24,089
    My belief is to always be thinking "get off the X" (to use a popular phrase these days). The "X" being the place where incoming fire is heading. If you are being ambushed in a kill zone, then you MUST keep driving. If your body is the X and the bad guys are chasing after you with AK-47s firing, then you are in a mobile kill zone (one that is wherever you are). Still then, I think there is a lot to be said for staying fast and mobile. Once you get out of your car and take cover behind it, I think you are starting the process of pinning yourself down for your adversary, and if there are multiple adversaries, you leave yourself open to being successfully flanked. And to avoid being flanked you would possibly have to leave your cover even if only for a moment to move to more cover (if there even is any at that point).

    I am sure there are times when abandoning your vehicle could be the best thing to do (for example maybe the perfect cover appears that your opponents would have to be funneled through single file in order to get to you, and you have 4 magazines of ammo).

    Never say never.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Not of this world
    Posts
    17,759
    CWS offers good advice. Taking cover behind your vehicle against AK rounds is not a good idea--they will zip through vehicles like a knife through butter. You must always maintain a way out if you are stopped in traffic. Allow enough room between you and the vehicle in front of you that you can cut the wheel and floor the gas without having to manuever. Speed is your friend. Drive up, over or around whatever you have to in order to exit the kll zone. If the attacker is close to you and you can run over him without backing up, duck down in the seat and run over him--quickly. As you've already said, awareness is your best tool, and always think about how you would escape from where you are if an attack suddenly happened. Make your escpae route in the shortest distance to exit the kill zone, turning at angles that will angle the drivers side of the vehicle away from the shooter if possible, driving behind buildings or other obstacles to give you cover as you escape. The big thing is to have a plan beforehand and respond instantly if attacked. Again, speed is your friend. If you don't get away quickly, you may not get away at all.
    **Mike Ronin on FaceBook**

    **Spero optimus instruo pro pessimus**

    **Out of destruction rises opportunity. We are only defeated when we give up. Never, ever give up. (Phil 4:13)**

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    789
    so it is like this:

    1. Awarnes of the enviroment and other cars around me is the best tool, see the attack before it is materialise.
    2. As when I drive or stop be sure to position my self in a position from wich I can scape.
    3. My car is a weapon by it self.
    4. Do not let them get on any of my sides.
    5. When engaged drive agresively and fast (Withing the limits of my skills).
    6. Only exit the car in case it is disbled or evasion is no longer possible. Exit, move to cover and engage. Be carefull not be flanked.
    7. Drive or shoot but not both at the same time.
    8. Never give up!!.

    Is there anything I might be missing?


    I found this page and I'm reading the articles and they are really good!! I just thought you guys might like it.

    http://www.securitydriver.com/aic/index.html


    cheers,
    Carlos

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Anna, TX
    Posts
    1,407
    What parts of the vehicle actually would work as cover? I'm thinking engine and wheels. Also, what are your thoughts about lowering the windows, if possible, to increase the mass of the door and to reduce th hazard from glass?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cheney, WA
    Posts
    2,053

    Default Big Car

    Sounds like a good time for the rest of y'all to buy a typical North Idaho rig; big 4 WD SUV or PU truck with sandbags in the bed, 17" or at a minimum 16" wheels, all weather tires, skid plate, push bars in front of the radiator. (Coop, if you retire here you can own one like that with lights all over the hood and a gun rack over the rear window! Whoopee! :D )

    Some folks have difficulty driving through or over stuff. Years of safe driving habits condition them to be reluctant to take their rig where it wasn't meant to go. It's not the sort of thing you can practice, at least not after you have survived your teens and seriously drunken driving escapades, (Not that I ever did any of that, but I've read about it. :o )

    I guess the next best thing is to visualize yourself doing it. Modern trannys, engines and 4WD LO can push over the most amazing obstacles, and drive right through stuff like hedges and brush. Think urban tank.

    God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Not of this world
    Posts
    17,759
    Exactly Geezer. NEVER be afraid to dent sheet metal. Bumpers are there for a reason--use them! Don't be afraid of hitting anything unless it is so substantial that it will stop your vehicle from moving. Limit damage to the engine compartment as much as possible, but getting away is the main thing. Other vehicles can easily be pushed out of the way, curbs can be jumped, fences mowed down, etc. Be realistic about what you can go through/around, but don't be afraid of denting your car.


    Carlos,
    I think you've got the major points down. SecurityDriver is an excellent site, and there is a lot of good info there.
    **Mike Ronin on FaceBook**

    **Spero optimus instruo pro pessimus**

    **Out of destruction rises opportunity. We are only defeated when we give up. Never, ever give up. (Phil 4:13)**

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •