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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Northern California
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    2,798
    Quote Originally Posted by vandal View Post
    Hey you were not supposed to mention the reverse-angle footage. From the front it looked like I won the day -- and that's the only vid I show my friends! Fixed blade in the FUT is totally cheating vs any folder.
    At least you did not have Sierra One sit on your face, draw your gun, and shoot you with it like I did.

    Serious point. If your laws let you go small fixed blade, I'd not even consider a folder.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    44,925
    Spyderco Pikal - List Price: $259.95
    Discounted Price: $175.00

    Spyderco Endura - List Price: $109.95
    Discounted Price: $75.00 (Maybe less in some places)

    Add a trainer to the mix and you are looking at $350 for a Pikal Set and only $150 for an Endura Set. You could literally have a set for right side and a set for left side.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    2,798
    One price, the P'Kal has its pants down around its ankles and thumb in its mouth. No argument. However, even if Thunder Farm's classes were half the price of SI's I'd not go. I'm willing to pay more if the benefit is there.

    The important question for me is does the Endura/Delica's handle design and lock support reliable access and deployment under pressure. How can we test that? We need some FOF experiments across a reasonable number of people.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    321

    Default Griptilian nipped me

    I just wanted to add that the springs on my Griptilian became worn so that I began to experience lock bounce. I got nipped for my trouble too.

    The springs still looked in good shape in terms of holding the blade closed
    and moving back and forth. So a visual safety check can be decieving.

    The problem is the springs don't move FAST enough, not that they don't move at all.

    So that might be something to watch for on a well used axis lock.
    Zippy

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    Posts
    653
    Great list Gabe! I loved that email! Thanks to God, it always seems you time stuff just right for me with the newsletters, it is almost always timely in my self-defense development.

    I really like my CRKT double Carson flipper knives, M16-14ZSF and M21-14DSFG. I think the later one meets all ten points.

    Granted they are liner locks. But with the AutoLawks system I feel really safe with them, even safer than a regular lockback. I still feel there are a few instances where I could shift grip unlock the back and maybe the same with an axis lock, but that's just my guess since I don't have much experience with them. With the Autolawks there is practically no way I could hit the little lock lever and then move the linerlock. Also, I can quite easily close it one handed ambidextrously after I'm done. It basically takes a liner lock and kinda adds an axis lock for extra safety so that you aren't depending on one system to keep you from slicing fingers off. I stopped EDCing my first generation M16-03 because it's liner lock but feel 99.9% sure with these, which is as much as I can with a folder. I feel they meet point 5.

    The moveable clip comes with these models so point 8 is met. In tip up carry, I can use the extra Carson flipper to open the knife wave style, 6. I've just started carrying tip up, blade forward, handle back with it clipped to the front of my pocket within the last few weeks. I can pull this into a reverse grip, either blade in or out depending if I roll the knife in the draw or not. If I miss the "wave" completely I have the other flipper there to depoly the knife (albeit with my pinky which I'm not sure how gross motor that would be) or if it partially waved opened I can inertia it the rest of the way. Then as CRKT likes to point out, you do have a full hilt when it is opened.

    Honestly, the zytel of the M16-14ZSF is too smooth, only has AUS 4 steel, and I don't prefer tantos. So it fails point 4 stock and probably point 7 as well, but I'm not a knife steel expert. But I'm glad I found it to turn me onto their dual flipper concept. My EDC is now the G10 scaled M21-14DSFG with it's "better" steel and spear point so it it mets 4 and I think 7 somewhat. At 3.875" In my book you can check off 3 and still legally carry them in places that limit folders to under 4". I'd say 1 and 2 are covered as well.

    With their low prices (I paid less than $50 shipped for each of them) and popularity, I think they fit points 9 and 10 also.

    So there's all ten but I'd definitely like to hear your opinions on them guys because I am far from an expert.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dont Tread on Me View Post
    I'm willing to pay more if the benefit is there.

    The important question for me is does the Endura/Delica's handle design and lock support reliable access and deployment under pressure. How can we test that? We need some FOF experiments across a reasonable number of people.
    That is a big IF. Any folding knife sucks against the ease of a fixed blade. The handle design is not much different in my opinion...not much at all. The lock on both is very strong. I recall seeing someone do pullups on a lockback knife a few years ago....so the lock is hardly an issue.

    The "access mechanism" or commonly..."the wave" regardless of Pikal, Emerson, or Endura is dependant of being able to press the knife forward and into the fabric as you extract it. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. If you are able to work the draw that way, the wave will open your knife. if you can't, you'd better have another way to get to it.

    The Pikal is 100% guaranteed to open? Nothing is 100% bro. Nothing.
    So between lock, grip and opening methods, I really don't see much difference.

    Now the issue of the blade. I do not like the reverse (concave) edge. It is difficult to resharpen and difficult to use in any way other than pikal fashion. Yes...I know....I'm sure someone will pop up to explain how easy it is to resharpen this knife. Whatever...a straight edge is far easier to do it with.

    Now back to that IF

    IF a knife was available that focused on reverse grip stabbing methodolgy, but did not exclude other methods of use.
    IF it had an easy to sharpen blade style suitable for both stabbing and cutting.
    IF it had a long enough, but not too long blade.
    IF it had a sound locking system and a reliable opneing method
    IF the grip design was supportive of stabbing as well other cutting chores

    All of those IFs would do a great deal to mitigate a high price tag. Right now, such a knife does not exist.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,210
    I'm not really a "knife guy". I own quite a few but they are a combination of bayonets, pocket knives (small and large), hunting/skinning knives and "combat" knives.

    When I read the email from Gabe one of the questions I had was about the stainless steel comments. Is "no stainless" because of bad experiences? Broken blades, hard to sharpen, don't hold an edge?

    Again, my experiences with knives are mostly carrying them and then using them to skin/gut an animal.

    There are most likely some good brands out there I have no experience with but there are some grades of stainless steel (and I can't tell you what they are but I can tell you the old Schrade knives used it) out there that are both easy to sharpen and have a very durable edge (durable in this context means it stays sharp longer).

    You can laugh if you want (at the way I describe my method of measuring how well a blade holds an edge) but this is based on experience skinning/gutting animals.

    These knives are fighting knives and they are expensive. My old Schrade LB7's can be sharpend to the point where they'll drive shave the hair off my arm, leg, etc. with a single pass and yet they'll hold their edge through gutting, skinning and quartering a fairly large deer. By the time I get to cutting the legs off at the hips/shoulders I can tell it's not as sharp as it was when I started but it's still cutting fine. Most other knives I've used won't keep their edge that long. That LB7 will gut and skin three ground hogs (ground hogs must be tough on a knife blade because they eat the edge up on Buck knives) before you need to touch the edge up to get it shaving sharp again.

    Which brings me to another question. What do you use to sharpen your blades? I've gotten partial to the Lansky kits over the years and have used it for everything from the little pocket folding Boker knives to bayonets. Once you get the angle set and the blade sharp you can re-sharpen it to "shaving" sharp in a few minutes when needed. I never could sharpen a blade too well on a whetstone - can't seem to keep the angle constant.

    Having a real sharp knife with a real sharp (and correctly formed point) sure does make it easy to stick that knife into a deer's throat and open it up so he'll bleed out. The wrong type of point (or a dull point) turns it into a twisting, poking, forcing fight to get the blade through that hide/hair and across to the other side. I'd guess the easier that knife cuts the easier it would be to hold on to. The only thing that would slow it down would be hitting bone (as long as its good and sharp).

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Not of this world
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    17,703
    I have bought the P'kal twice, and have tried to make it work because I like it. My biggest problem with it was that I kept cutting my darn finger, either on the "wave" feature when I would reach in the pocket, or the blade would open slightly and cut me as I reached into the pocket. I finally gave up on it since I kept a deep cut on my right hand. It works well for others and I guess they don't have that problem, but I could not make it work. It is a well-made knife and serves it's purpose well.

    I have used and carried both the waved Delica and Endura. I sold the Endura. It is a great blade in some respects, but the extra length does not make it open as surely as the Delica, and the Delica is more easily opened when you are on the ground or in a bent over position. As Gabe says, nothing is 100%, but the Delica is closer to it than the Endura, IMO. I still think a blade length in between the two would be ideal, and the wave feature on them is as good as any blade I have used. They are a great value for the money.

    I paid around 55.00 bucks for the waved Delica and Endura, and about 130.00 for both P'kal's.
    **Mike Ronin on FaceBook**

    **Spero optimus instruo pro pessimus**

    **Out of destruction rises opportunity. We are only defeated when we give up. Never, ever give up. (Phil 4:13)**

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    209
    The vast majority of the discussion here appears centered around folding knives. This is perhaps rightly so, as they are so ubiquitous in today's society.

    However, what are the options for those of us that can carry a fixed blade? In Colorado, if the blade length is inder 3.5 inches, it is not a knife according to the law. This opens up smaller fixed blade knives to carry here.

    http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext...=main-h.htm&cp=

    Above link to the law for the curious.

    For example, on duty, I carry one of the smaller Ka-Bar TDI knives on my off side, accessible with my left hand, specifically for gun grabs. (I also carry several others, including folders.) I also carry one of the larger ones here in Iraq, set up in a similar fashion on my gear, only more accessible by both hands. The smaller one is well under 3.5 inches, and I do occasionally carry it off duty as well.

    I understand that the TDI is deliberately fairly limited in its employment method, however, in my training with it, it is well suited to “monkey sticking a football” simplicity in its use. Grab handle, start punching.

    Opinions?

    What other options are there out there for fixed blades?
    GDW
    "The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, anytime and with utter recklessness."
    R.A. Heinlein

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    4,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    The "access mechanism" or commonly..."the wave" regardless of Pikal, Emerson, or Endura is dependant of being able to press the knife forward and into the fabric as you extract it. Nothing is 100% guaranteed.
    Having practiced this in both FOF and in conjunction with striking the heavy bag ( to simulate having to deal with a close up attack empty handed in order to create the opportunity to access and deploy a blade), I have found that folders with "the wave" can be very unreliable if you are moving dynamically. As in 20-30% of the time, the hook will fail to get a solid purchase on the fabric and either fail to open or won't unfold completely into the locked position.

    In my case, it's far easier to access a larger folder and deploy it via inertia opening.
    "When you end up having to force people to behave as if they agreed with you, it's almost certainly because what you're peddling is horsesh*t." - L. Neil Smith

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