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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Beyond The Wall

    Default The Demise Of The Shotgun??

    We have been discussing the Shotgun Gunfighting DVDs we will be doing next month. I will do this DVD because I want to put out something other than the typical "ravencrap" material currently available on shotguns so people really know how to fight with one. But I think that is all seriousness, the use of this weapon for other than sports or games is fast least to any level other than an occassional 3 gun game or shooting at a burglar from the bed.

    If we can't fill a class with shotgun students, the weapon is totally irrelevant to me from an economic standpoint. I am not the only one seeing this.

    Why do I say that? As one example....I am teaching the first Shotgun Class I have taught in three years in Chattanooga. And this is not some goofy duck hunter modern technique deal, but some serious shotgun gunfighting stuff I have developed. In all seriousness and honesty, I will probably cancel it as I don't have enough enrollment interest in this to pay my flight.

    On the other hand, the AK based classes from now until year's end are ALL either full or nearly full. Go figure!

    I look at WT as a barometer of the market interest. I also have the girls research what others are doing. I see very very few shotgun classes being offered by anyone. Why not? Instructors got tired of teaching classes at a loss I suspect.

    What holds most interest? Rifles, AKs, Force On Force, etc. For example....MT monkeys that only two years ago would do nothing but bemoan the AK are all now doing AK Operator classes (poor excuses for AK Operator Classes but that is another story).

    Here is what I see with the shotgun at WT. Since inception-

    • CCW Pistol Gunfighting Combined Forums 56,990 Posts
    • AK Rifle (excluding the technical stuff!) 22,831 posts
    • General Rifle Stuff 14,110 Posts
    • Fitness 16,782 Posts
    • Knives 18,967 Posts
    • Shotgun Gunfighting ...... a measly 5,895 Posts
    I will do the DVD because I can and want to, but I think that will be the end results of my efforts with this weapon unless the market interest changes....or someone wants to come out to Prescott for a Private Lesson<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    New Braunfels, TX
    I'm finding it is very regional. I may put one on in PA as I have had tons of interest in it. Last one in VA was a no go. Time before that was 8 guys, I think. As much as I like teaching it, I'm with you on it being a very limited market right now. That could change. Who knows?
    "Most people find change in their dryer, I find bullets"- My wife

    I will remember that if the monsterous creature is within clubbing range, it is a tight situation, and start clubbing. This is true even if my firearm still works. No reason not to club and shoot at the same time.

    Whacking: The redistribution or impairment of biological functions intended to eliminate intercellular cooperation within a sentient organism.

  3. #3
    Al Lipscomb Guest
    Marketing is a tricky thing.

    The shotgun lacks a lot of the "cool" factor that attracts a lot of people. But as a fighting tool the shotgun still seems to have a place. Up until at least the Vietnam era the shotgun found a home with the military on the battlefield. It may not have as much application as some think it does, but there are cases where it still has advantages.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Hot Springs, SD
    I'll probably buy the shotgun DVD - but over the past 25 years, I went from the shotgun being the #1 go-to weapon all the way to having them in the gunsafe and never even bothering with them.

    Why? I can use a pistol or an AK instead in probably 99% of any situation. More importantly, a shotgun is big, heavy, doesn't hold a lot of rounds, and very importantly, my wife absolutely can't run one and doesn't understand why a person would even bother, since there are AKs with 30 round mags that are easier to shoot and don't beat her to death. We've both discussed the little witness protection shotguns (and have fired them), and might play if it weren't for the cost/paperwork/tax stamp. Even with those, there would be limited use for us civilians.

    She's not just some dummy - it was her thinking that got me involved with Suarez techniques, Glocks and AKs.

    I am one of the odd people who never liked AR-15s, so the rifle was a lever gun in the past. Handgun was a 1911. Always had a 12 gauge pump around - but why move around inside my house with that thing when I can just use my Glock? If I end up shooting with the shotgun, I'll then be spending a lot of time feeding ammo into it. Granted, a load of buckshot really hits, though I have seen plenty of critters soak up one or two rounds of buckshot from less than 15 foot distances and still try to run off.

    Anyway - just little interest in my world about how to use a 12 gauge pump gun.
    PS - already signed up for an AK course in November 2009, will grab any FOF or ACRG class I can get to. But, would pass on shotgun stuff unless it were close and pretty much free (not very good reasons to market a class). Sorry to ramble on...
    "God, family, tribe...nothing else matters, nothing else counts, nothing else gets a drop of my sweat or my blood." - Gabe Suarez
    "Be a wolf. There are already too many sheep." - Me
    My view of the world:
    David Benjamin West on Facebook, also have a separate page which is Threat-Management.
    NRA Benefactor Member
    CRG, PSP, KRMS, AKRG, DK - Great training will win over great equipment.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Like any other "hobby" the shooting field has it's fads and like other American consumers are fickle.

    Remember the "Mercenary" school fad of the 80's, the "Sniper" fad, the "Contractor" fad of late, and now the AK fad. I am waiting for the next one
    I am sure if you did a Saiga "shotty" only class and then put up a bunch of pictures of people is fancy nylon gear and sexy guns, your numbers would go up.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    I think a lot of people grew up with them and feel like they can hit anything with them without training.

    If they were pushed into fighting with one vs. just standing and delivering with one...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Central TX
    Interestingly, my IDPA club did a 'shotgun only' match last night in place of the normal weekly pistol match. While everyone agreed it was tons of fun and we ought to do these quarterly, in talking at dinner afterwards I don't think anyone would have picked up the shotgun in a serious situation.

    The only people who were really good (meaning, it didn't take forever to reload) where the guys who are heavy into 3 gun competition. And I know those guys are even better with a rifle than they are with a shotgun.
    Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by one_man_force
    Like any other "hobby" the shooting field has it's fads and like other American consumers are fickle.

    Remember the "Mercenary" school fad of the 80's, the "Sniper" fad, the "Contractor" fad of late, and now the AK fad. I am waiting for the next one
    I am sure if you did a Saiga "shotty" only class and then put up a bunch of pictures of people is fancy nylon gear and sexy guns, your numbers would go up.
    And how many posts have been Siaga 12 posts that were errantly put up on the AK board? I expect quite a few. We are assuming here that all the posts in each section are actually talking about the header subject, which is often not the case.
    Just because you cant imagine it doesnt mean I can't do it.

    Most people are not looking for answers....they are looking for approval.

  9. #9
    dgg9 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rumbaugh
    I may put one on in PA as I have had tons of interest in it.
    I'll be there, if so. All the disadvantages they say about the SG are probably true, but I live in a city where there are probably 100,000 people living within rifle range of me, so an effective short range weapon has real value-add for me.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    I won't be giving my up my shotguns anytime soon; I care about the environment I'll have to most likely defend (neighbors, thin walls, kids, etc.) too much to break out my AK as first choice or even second choice, barring some kind of mob or zombies. Shoot, I even worry about an errant .40SW or 9mm, but certianly less than a 7.62 or 5.56 round.

    (And I have taken a SI shotgun class via Jack, and would love to take an advanced one if in the area or any really just to get trigger time as there simply isn't opportunities in my area to shoot the way "we" collectively would like to.)

    AK's, AR's and battle rifles are bitchencool no doubt, and not many folks get to learn to shoot them decently if at all, so the interest is always going to be prevelant for that reason alone methinks.

    Shotguns simply aren't so much, and as already has been said, many people think they can shoot a shotgun if they really need to as-is (nevermind they will perform at thier training level instead of rising to the occasion as they probably think, but I digress).
    Last edited by Crucible; 10-02-2008 at 12:42 PM.

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