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  1. #31
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Yes and as the diameter increases the velocity decreases which in turn decreases penetration. It's not necessary to increase the diameter of the .44 or.45. The diameter is already sufficient to make a large hole. With the .355 bullet you already have two strikes against you first is diameter second is mass. As the diameter increases the velocity drops of sharply do to the light mass which compromises penetration.

    A non expanding .355 bullet will penetrate further and create a longer but smaller permanent wound channel however, the wound channel between the entry hole and the exit hole will be permanent. Something else to consider is non expanding bullets tend to pass through barriers and retain more energy than HP counter parts.

    I guess it's somewhat of a trade off, you can expand and slow down the bullet creating a much larger temporary wound channel and possibly compromise penetration or you can create a longer permanent wound channel with increased penetration.
    1) The FBI has done far more research on this topic than you and I together.

    2) There are several commercially-available expanding bullet designs on the market that have been tested by the FBI. Similar bullets in loadings not yet tested, like the .44 Special, are expected to perform similarly well.

    3) The NYPD has a record of hitting bystanders with pass through shots when they used to issue 9x19 FMJ.

    When I add all three facts, I come to the conclusion that I am much better off, tactically and legally, using well-known hollow point bullets in factory loadings that have performed acceptably well in FBI tests.

  2. #32
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    Aug 2005
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    4,299
    Though I seldom carry my .44 Bulldog socially, like to collect loads for it. Have Blazer/Gold dots, Hornady Custom/XTP's, handloads w/XTP's, and the Corbon DPX loadings. I haven't dug any of these back outta two legged type varmints or gelatin. Make a big fire, get a 55 gal drum of BBQ sauce, the horse is DEAD ! steve b

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    110
    [quote=Wyatt Earp;642636]1) The FBI has done far more research on this topic than you and I together.
    [quote]

    There a reasonably good source but not the only source.

    2) There are several commercially-available expanding bullet designs on the market that have been tested by the FBI. Similar bullets in loadings not yet tested, like the .44 Special, are expected to perform similarly well.
    For soft tissue penetration perhaps, lab tests are different from the real world.

    3) The NYPD has a record of hitting bystanders with pass through shots when they used to issue 9x19 FMJ.
    Perhaps they do but how many people have been hit by direct misses, given that the majority of shots fired miss the suspect probably a lot more.

    When I add all three facts, I come to the conclusion that I am much better off, tactically and legally, using well-known hollow point bullets in factory loadings that have performed acceptably well in FBI tests.
    Tactically perhaps in some situations however I still question this because do to the ever changing nature of situations and the environment. Penetration and maximum performance under the widest possible conditions would seem more logical.

    From a legal stand point how would hitting a bystander with a HP be better than a FMJ. If the argument is solely basing on the possibility of shoot troughs then I could see the logic but again given the high number of misses in an encounter wouldn't bystanders stand a better chance with FMJs or hard lead.

    The Prosecutor could realistically argue it from any angle and make it fit.

    I could also be argued that hard bullets have a greater ability to penetrate barriers such as dwellings and retain more energy thus could pose a greater risk to the general public.

    Over the years I have found that hard bullets in hand guns just seem to work better under a wider range of conditions which is why I suggest them. I tend to favor penetration especially in low velocity hand guns and even more so in small caliber ones.
    Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without. Havamal 38

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Winding Stair Mts
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    23
    Winchester silver tips are good rounds. I have an old box and I think they still make them.
    "Loud noises do not usually stop a gunfight,
    Well placed hits do." --Col. Cooper

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Winding Stair Mts
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    I went to a Speer ballistic seminar sponsored by North American Shooting Academy (NASA) last summer. We tested mostly hollow points in 10% ballistic gelatin, including shooting thru barriers, clothing, glass and such, pretty well duplicating the FBI tests. Attendees could shoot whatever they brought. It was fairly amazing, 9mm penetrated as much as .40sw which penetrated as much as .45. Everything opened up equally well thru the same barriers, of course a .45 doubling is .9 whereas a 9mm doubling is about .7. One cool thing, off track of course, a .357mag thru a carbine is moving out at over 2000fps, and will go thru soft body armor, AT 100YARDS!! which is why Oklahoma came up with a lever action rifle instructor course.
    "Loud noises do not usually stop a gunfight,
    Well placed hits do." --Col. Cooper

  6. #36
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    Aug 2007
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    Saxon, I wish you success with the type of ammunition you think is best.

    I will hedge my bets and go with the same general kind of handgun ammunition that is time tested in the lab and on the street and that is the universal choice of all relevant law enforcement agencies in the nation.

  7. #37
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    Aug 2005
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    4,299
    LTR, I think "I think they still make them" has meaning. Yes, the silvertips are as good as ever, but... if ya want to stay with the brand, look at the Ranger's next time you buy. By all means use what ya got till then. steve b

  8. #38
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    Aug 2005
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    Hhmmm... on second thought, we're talking .44spec.. is there a Ranger loading ? Well I did list my favorites above. steve b

  9. #39
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    Hhmmm... on second thought, we're talking .44spec.. is there a Ranger loading ?
    There are no Ranger loads in .44 Special. Speer (Gold Dot) and Hornady (XTP) are excellent choices.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    Hhmmm... on second thought, we're talking .44spec.. is there a Ranger loading ? Well I did list my favorites above. steve b
    Nope, but, Cor-Bon makes a good load.

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