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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Personally I wouldn't bother with HPs the 44 already makes a big enough hole and HP don't seem to perform (expand) well.
    If you buy good ammo it performs well.

  2. #22
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    When ya get to .44 size handguns.. HP's are for two-legged varmints, flat-nosed cast bullets are for four-legged varmints. Simple heh ? steve b

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    When ya get to .44 size handguns.. HP's are for two-legged varmints, flat-nosed cast bullets are for four-legged varmints. Simple heh ? steve b

    Flat nose cast bullets work real good on two legged varmints history tells us that. They also work well on the four legged variety. So yep it is simple...

    If you want or feel the need to use hollow points that's great. Personally I don't think there really is a need for them in large caliber low velocity guns. Your better off with penetration. I used to be a fan of hollow points in hand guns but not so much any more. I also thought that more was better, so more powder drive the bullet faster need more "stopping power"...LOL. However I have re-thought that also. If you really need "stopping power" then use a high powered rifle.

    I can spend a ~$1.20 cartridge or more loaded with some designer HP bullet that some writer in some gun magazine is promoting that looks nasty or, I can spend less than 20 cents a cartridge loaded with a dull boring old looking FP that will consistently make a big hole. If the 44spl / mag won't handle it then I recon I will have to just pull out the 45/70.

    For small caliber autos I prefer hardball in the winter and sometimes I will load really good HP in the summer but usually it's hardball all around.
    Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without. Havamal 38

  4. #24
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    HP's are for social engagements. They limit penetration. Yes, in .22-.32 many just stick with FMJ.. steve b

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    HP's are for social engagements. They limit penetration. Yes, in .22-.32 many just stick with FMJ.. steve b
    So why does one want to limit penetration
    Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without. Havamal 38

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    So why does one want to limit penetration
    The main reason (IMHO) is because of liability. An overpenetrative load will blow right through a person and still have the energy to hit and kill an innocent bystander, while reducing how much shocking energy the bullet brings. I'm not all that worried about liability when it comes to defending my life, but I'm going to minimize it where I can. In the end, a handgun round (ANY handgun round) is going to be less effective than a rifle round, but if I can increase the shocking power of whatever load I'm using I'll go with that. I always liked the 200-gr. Speer Gold Dot .44 Special load, because it has such mild recoil, rapid shot-to-shot recovery, and it opens up even at its relatively low velocity.
    "I'd rather live in a violent tumultuous, but free land, than in a controlled, safe, but oppressed one." - Gabe Suarez.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6Gunner View Post
    The main reason (IMHO) is because of liability. An overpenetrative load will blow right through a person and still have the energy to hit and kill an innocent bystander, while reducing how much shocking energy the bullet brings. I'm not all that worried about liability when it comes to defending my life, but I'm going to minimize it where I can. In the end, a handgun round (ANY handgun round) is going to be less effective than a rifle round, but if I can increase the shocking power of whatever load I'm using I'll go with that. I always liked the 200-gr. Speer Gold Dot .44 Special load, because it has such mild recoil, rapid shot-to-shot recovery, and it opens up even at its relatively low velocity.

    I could see this argument in a world where every round hit target however, the reality is that every round doesn't hit target. So in thinking this through one should load with HP because of the increased damage it can do and the limited penetration. So what happens when the HPs miss target and hit innocent bystanders.....You see the paradox

    This is a quote from a Justice department FBI report. The link to the document is at the bottom.


    An issue that must be addressed is the fear of over penetrating widely expressed on the part of law enforcement. The concern that a bullet would pass through the body of a subject and injure an innocent bystander is clearly exaggerated. Any review of law enforcement shootings will reveal
    that the great majority of shots fired by officers do not hit any subjects at all. It should be obvious that the relatively few shots that do hit the subject are not somehow more dangerous to bystanders than the shots that miss the subject entirely.
    When selecting ammo the author stress penetration first with 12"-18" being the guide and with 18" through soft tissue being preferable.

    In addition you also have to factor in passing through bone in off angle shots and add to this possibility of having to pass through foreign objects prior to body contact, suddenly your expecting/asking a lot of a HP bullet.




    Justice department (FBI) document published in 1989.
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
    Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without. Havamal 38

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    In addition you also have to factor in passing through bone in off angle shots and add to this possibility of having to pass through foreign objects prior to body contact, suddenly your expecting/asking a lot of a HP bullet.
    Modern hollow point handgun bullets are designed with this in mind. Also bear in mind that handgun bullets, due to their low velocity, do the majority of their damage through tissue crushing, which is directly proportional to bullet diameter.

    A .45 caliber FMJ bullet will never be larger than .45". An expanding .355" bullet will easily top that by at least .1" and will have a much larger temporary wound channel.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
    Modern hollow point handgun bullets are designed with this in mind. Also bear in mind that handgun bullets, due to their low velocity, do the majority of their damage through tissue crushing, which is directly proportional to bullet diameter.

    A .45 caliber FMJ bullet will never be larger than .45". An expanding .355" bullet will easily top that by at least .1" and will have a much larger temporary wound channel.
    Yes and as the diameter increases the velocity decreases which in turn decreases penetration. It's not necessary to increase the diameter of the .44 or.45. The diameter is already sufficient to make a large hole. With the .355 bullet you already have two strikes against you first is diameter second is mass. As the diameter increases the velocity drops of sharply do to the light mass which compromises penetration.

    A non expanding .355 bullet will penetrate further and create a longer but smaller permanent wound channel however, the wound channel between the entry hole and the exit hole will be permanent. Something else to consider is non expanding bullets tend to pass through barriers and retain more energy than HP counter parts.

    I guess it's somewhat of a trade off, you can expand and slow down the bullet creating a much larger temporary wound channel and possibly compromise penetration or you can create a longer permanent wound channel with increased penetration.
    Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without. Havamal 38

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post

    I guess it's somewhat of a trade off, you can expand and slow down the bullet creating a much larger temporary wound channel and possibly compromise penetration or you can create a longer permanent wound channel with increased penetration.
    Or you can use the quality HP's that meed the FBI criteria and get the needed penetration with expansion.

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