SI 2014 Training
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    For a conventional scope have Jim put a side plate on it. There are very good scope mounts available that you can use with any scope

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8
    Why does it seem like every email I get now in the Warrior News is about an AK? Crap, the AR's and M1A's make those things look sick, even the garand does better.....I traded my AK for an AR and haven't looked back at all, I do own 2 SKS's which I like to shoot but to compare them to the others is silly...Hell, the caliber is no better than a 30-30 ....

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    765
    Quote Originally Posted by jem375
    Why does it seem like every email I get now in the Warrior News is about an AK? Crap, the AR's and M1A's make those things look sick, even the garand does better.....I traded my AK for an AR and haven't looked back at all, I do own 2 SKS's which I like to shoot but to compare them to the others is silly...Hell, the caliber is no better than a 30-30 ....
    I love my AR's and I can get my 11.5" SBR on target at 500+ yards. The point here is that almost NO ONE will give the AK the attention, credit and praise its due. You like your AR better than the AK you had? Great!!! Learn all you can from Suarez International and apply it to the AR platform but your in a forum about AKs getting news letters from a teacher who LOVES AKs and wants more folks to understand the advantages of the AK system. Everything that can be said about or done with the AR has been said and done. In this country the AK is not fully understood and its advantages over the AR are things no one cares about or appreciates unless they are on a real battle field (extreme reliability while extremely dirty, penetration through cover, beating skulls in, etc.)

    Now, before your post leads to this threat getting hijacked lets keep this in context with the topic here. At 500 yards the 123 gr 7.62x39 is more comparable to taking a hit from a .380 acp or 9mm and the 5.56 is like getting hit from a heavy 22LR or 22 magnum. Most folks won't give the AK a chance in hell past 200 yards and here we are talking about 600 yard hits (my 10" Yugo M92 Krink is EASY to hit with out to 400 yards:D ). Now some ARs are CRAZY accurate with heavy match ammo out to 600 yards but its terminal performance is pathetic past 200 yards (less if your barrel is shorter than 16"). Regarding your comments on the M1 and M1A in the context of the topic being discussed here, well that's like breaking in on a conversation about how heavy a load our pickups can haul and saying "well my 18 wheeler makes your pickups look sick". No Sh!t Sherlock!!!
    Last edited by Sharps74; 01-08-2008 at 10:10 AM.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." Patrick Henry

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  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    The long and short of it -

    Kalashnikov Forum: 1,060 threads with 13,554 posts
    Ar-M4 Forum: 182 threads 2,827 posts
    M14/Garand Forum: 49 threads with 579 posts
    FAL Forum: 69 threads with 1023 posts

    When this changes, so will my focus. As to the rest of your post -

    1). the AR's and M1A's make those things look sick,

    Show me why this is the case (in a seperate thread please). No gun school modern technique instructor dogma either. tell me exactly why this is the case.

    2). even the garand does better.

    Again...show me why this is. And show me how you train with your rifle.

    3). ..I traded my AK for an AR and haven't looked back at all, I do own 2 SKS's which I like to shoot but to compare them to the others is silly...Hell, the caliber is no better than a 30-30

    You obviously don't care for "tham dar pesky commie terror guns", and prefer US made stuff. While I think we have put the myth of "inaccurate to rest with the capable help of Jack A Sol, I'm stunned to not have heard something about "ergonomics" while we were at it.

    But tell me...have you attended a class with your rifle?
    Have you carried it in the field for an extended period of time?

    Seriously...please educate us in a seperate thread why your guns are better than our guns. If you are correct and can convince me, I will sell all of my AKs and go buy Garands instead.

  5. #25
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    May 2000
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    See the thread I began about this and for the education only. http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=33345

    This thread will now continue on course......

  6. #26
    Good review Jack,

    The conventional military analysis on the AK47, 7.62x39 platform is that it's effective range is 300M, shooting at a prone or moving target. It's not considered effective beyond this because your oponent, asuming he has a weapon with of greater effective range, will likely take you out before you can score a hit.

    That's not to say you can't put rounds down on a target at ranges in excess of this threashold but it becomes increasingly difficult for the average individual soldier (no spotter) , using the weapon in standard issue spec.

    The design does have a lot of intrinsic mechanical accuracy, short rigid barrel, friing from a closed bolt and locked breech. It was designed in the context of mechanized warefare, where the soldier is delivered to battle by the APC/BMP and so was never optimised for longer ranges.

    A RSA trigger pack, scope and Black hills match ammo may make it effective out to 500M.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX/ Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    121
    In previous life I've seen moving targets hit at ranges of 300-450 meters... With both 5.45 and 7.62. I had to qualify on moving targets (shooting burst- not semi) at 300... With stock iron sights.
    Also in previous life I have heard anecdotal stories from those who have been and done... stories of 500+ meters shots with intended targets not complaining of non-sufficient energy transfer...
    But what do I know...

  8. #28

    Default Man, I love these weapons

    I had to get in on this. I went out earlier and busted up some steel and punched some paper from 25-600 meters. Shot my AK's- a Vector & a WASR 10/63, M1A1 w/ gen. 3 mount/sightron scope, a Bushmaster V-match and the DPMS 16" Bull barrel. Did real good despite the wind from the storn thats blowing through here in central TX. I shot the AK's the most about 400 rds(Wolf CM FMJ). At 600 I hit 10/30 w/ the Vector and 8/30 w/ the WASR after I had my poi/poa down. Yes they where pretty hot too. 500 meters was a lot better, almost 50% for both guns. Everything else is scoped and did much better w/ the M1A1 hitting 7/10 w/ match ammo at 600M. My AR's fared only 50%. The wind was gusting . All targets were standard size silhoutes. Tonight I walk the creek to the river (hog hunting) and it will be my AK as weapon of choice. I may scope the WASR later to increase it's capability.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    160

    Default My AAR of the Worland shoot

    Gents,

    I also attended this match due to the prompting of Jack. First time ever shooting a match at these ranges.

    Shot the 300-50 with my M1A and scored a 201/300. I was very surprised as I don't have much time on my M1A but I did have a lot of help from Jack and a couple of other participants which was much, much appreciated.

    Shot the frozen Chosin portion of the match with my Robinson Arms Vepr 7.62x39 shooting 7.62x39 Wolf 122gr FMJ black box. It is an AK built on an RPK receiver and in practice it is more accurate than my SAR or most "standard" AKs I've shot. I did not do so well on this event as my sighting in at home was off. Doh! Only 8 hits out of 70 rounds fired. Needless to say I lost but I did rectify things on Sunday.

    Jack and prariefire helped me to get my VEPR properly sighted in for the out to 600 yd shoot. I figured past 300 yds we would just be slinging lead at the general direction of the steel. Man was I surprised! At 400 yds I went through a 30 rd mag, missed only a couple of my first shots and then proceeded to hit with the rest of my mag. I heard someone behind me say after the 20th round or so that "this is boring.":D

    Shot about 80% at 500yds. Jack covered the rest in more detail than I can recount. I do know that most of the others still there were quite impressed (and surprised) with what an AK can do at range, especially with Jacks AK. And copy the fact that the targets were not moving or making themselves smaller, but just the fact it can be done is heart-warming.

    I had a great time at this shoot and am glad I went. I know it is a long way for most people, but I would highly recommend attending one of these events. The range was good and it was a good mix of shooters and just all around good people. Heck, I drove 6 hours just to do this and will do it again. These matches are also a good way to test out your gear and see what works and what doesn't. Plus it was cold and wet so good practice for being miserable and still shooting.

    -Gilmoreaz, other shooters shooting .308 would still get a nice “clang” when hitting steel at 600 yards. The tink was definitely from the 7.62 x 39 from 400-600 yds. And I was wearing Peltors and could hear the “tink” just fine.

    I want to say thanks to Jack A Sol for advertising the match and to prariefire for showing me another way to get my AK topcover on, as well as other help this relative long range newbie needed.

    Chan
    I'm not a liberal so I have a poor grasp of stuff I don't know anything about.
    P.J. O' Rourke, "Holidays in Hell"

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Valley PHX, AZ.
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hummermole
    -Gilmoreaz, other shooters shooting .308 would still get a nice “clang” when hitting steel at 600 yards. The tink was definitely from the 7.62 x 39 from 400-600 yds. And I was wearing Peltors and could hear the “tink” just fine. . . "

    Chan

    Thanks Chan. I was just wondering.

    .
    Last edited by gilmoreaz; 01-08-2008 at 06:14 PM.

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