SI 2014 Training
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  1. #11
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    Any time the AK stops - reload it. if the reload fails, unload it and then reload it. That's the IAD.

    Did the AK story come from LAPD

    I've never seen a stovepipe on an AK. Not saying they will never, but seldom.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven
    AKs don't ever get a Type 1 malfucntion? I seem to remember watching a History Channel documentary on the North Hollywood guys and they explained one of the shooters switched to a handgun when his AK stovepiped some brass and he couldn't clear it for some reason.

    Maybe I'm getting my terminology confused....

    Edited: IIRC, for the lock and rock type mags, isn't the tap + rack replaced by pull + rack?
    The issue isn't the malfunction, it's the effect of tapping a rock-in magazine that's improperly seated. You're likely to lose the magazine, which puts you back where Gabe's flowchart had things to begin with. You reload the rifle to solve that type of stoppage. If it happened on the zeroth round from a fresh magazine, you can reload the same mag, but you have to reload.

    And for Gabe in #11: Still doesn't matter. If there is a stovepipe, the reload fixes it.

  3. #13
    I follow now. Thanks!
    The flow chart I described just seems to highlight another advantage of AK and other Lock and rock magazine rifles? You could skip a step!

  4. #14
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    I just went thorugh my two recordings of the Hollywood shootout to see if there was any reference to a "stovepipe". One is a two hour version titled "Officer Down" from the Discovery Channel and the other is a one hour version from the History Channel's "Shootout" series.

    The Discovery Channel mentions only a jam on the susp's AK. In the History Channel's "Shootout" version the jam is described by the narrator as a "stovepipe". Then an explaination of "stovepipe" is given by an LAPD officer and it is shown on an AK, along with how to clear it. It was described as easy to clear and some question as to why the susp could not or did not know how to clear it, therefor abandoning the AK and using his handgun.
    "Many men are able, most aren't willing"
    J.B. Books

  5. #15
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    They were also grossly overweight, on Valium, and ill-trained.

  6. #16
    The significance of the AK jamming, per the show, was that the shooter lost his "firepower" advantage when his gun (AK) failed (identified as a stove pipe per the show). At that point it was pistol verses pistol and he was killed minutes later. To me this fits well with your flow chart. If you can get to cover do so, then clear the weapon and reload, verses transitioning immediately to a hand gun. It also highlights that any weapon can malfunction at times, due to a problem with the weapon or the ammo. The key is to know how to deal with the problem while staying alive and in the fight.

    Based on what I've read of the incident the two robbers fired more that 1k rounds yet the only two people to die were the two BGs (One perp died from a hundgun wound, the other from rounds fired by a SWAT officer using an AR even though both perps were wearing body armor), although 11 LAPD officers were injured in the shootout. There are many lessons to be learned here but we should be careful about picking and choosing which ones they are. JMO

  7. #17
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    the other from rounds fired by a SWAT officer using an AR

    Actually he died from positional asphyxia. Not from the AR 15

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez
    They were also grossly overweight, on Valium, and ill-trained.
    Valium? That's like taking a sleeping pill the night before an exam.
    "Think stupid, stupid, stupid, and then think how that extends to every aspect of life. Now, as long as you are there, think about how you would rehabilitate someone that stupid?"
    -Geezer (RIP)

    What you bring to the table goes a long way towards defining what happens.
    -dgg9

  9. #19
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    I can only assume the Valium was to calm their nerves. They probably were taking something else to jack them up, and the Valium to take the edge off.
    A bedtime story:

    I was down at the Mosque going through a few magazines.
    I was having a good time.
    Then, my rifle jammed.

  10. #20
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    and To Get The Thread Back On Track................

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