Originally Posted by Drifting Fate
Hopefully, the information I’ve provided can delineate the differences better for you.
I'm no ballistics expert, but I keep hearing about 7.62X39 simply punching holes in people and not tumbling. My impression was that penetration was a much more significant issue in it's design than yawing was.
Correct, both Fackler and Robert’s information suggests that most current lead core 7.62x39 FMJ provides a similar permanent wound no better than a 9mm FMJ.
This subject also brings up the issue of just what AR round are we talking about?
See my information…
One person has mentioned the heavier bullets. If I understand things correctly, they are actually doing worse as fight stoppes because they are moving more slowly, but mostly because they are so stable that the aren't having the tumbling effect that the lighter, less stable bullets have. From a military aspect, there are advantages to a heavier, more stable bullet, but for us civilians working in an urban environment, what we want is instability.
Please cite the source for the information in Red as it is not correct in terms of the OTM designed projectiles. In term of the M855 it’s a velocity and barrel equation as it pertains to the engaged distance of the target.
Also, flight stability of the projectile has nothing to do with its wounding ability. That’s determined by the projectile design and whether the projectile hits the target within its operating velocity window to inflict the maximum wound damage.
One reason so many raid teams are going to 5.56 is the over penetration issue (when compared to pistol calibers). We shouldn't pick a cartridge just because of what will happen if we miss, but it is part of the overall equation.
Having said all that, round for round, the AK certainly has the potential to be a better stopper. I do question whether that potential has been realized to much extent, certainly not to extent it has been with the 5.56 simply due to virtually zero evolution on one hand and decades of change, testing, and tweaking on the other.
The AR works and I would even go so far as to say it is a good choice despite what it's chambered for. And, the AK is a good choice despite, or because, it's design hasn't changed much. Both do the job, and picking one over the other really shouldn't come down to terminal ballistics in a general sense. We can create scenerios for each one in which it would be a better choice than the other, but that is just gaming.
Domestically produced 7.62x39 is finally being tweak and tested with new bullets to offer better performing loads. Dr. Robert’s was supposed to have conduct some recent gelatin testing and I expect to see some of that data from the 7.62x39 loads like Corbon, etc. soon. (When I find them I’ll post them)
"If war is ever lawful, then peace is sometimes sinful."
"Me? I think all of that is a load of gun school crap. I train and teach to shoot them to the ground. Beginning at the chest I shoot a burst to the chest and run the line up til I get to the face. Winning their hearts and minds....Suarez style."