Rifle Gunfighting Notes - Reverse Shoulder

[Gabe Suarez]

This will be an article soon, but here are some notes -

Fights involve one person (or group) taking the initiative and starting the fight, and the other party responding. In essence one is ambushing the other and the other is responding.

This attack can be at any distance.

For those who have the initiative, all they need it marksmanship and the will to kill. If you know that 100% of the time 24/7/365 you will always be the ambusher, then stand your ground, pop into a good stance and shoot little groups all day long...just like at gun school.

OTOH, if you realize that you may be on the reactive end as much as proactive...if not more often, you will develop a method to avoid getting shot and get off the X.

In the sense of the rifle it is very much distance dependadnt. An attacker bringing his rifle or pistol to bear at 5 yards will be handled with different techniques than an adversary shooting from trees and bushes at 300 yards. Remember Anthony's post on reaction to enemy fire. The concept is the same.

When we look at the close range application we are familiar with from CRG and ECRG we know that moving to the right and left is far better than standing still or moving forward/backwards. The idea of moving towaqrds the left has always been a concern as you will either shoot from a twisted postition, or you will be backing up (with is not desirable).

Recently when discussing this with Sonny Puzikas at AK-Prescott he showed me how to transition from the right side to the left side while moving off the X. This was veryt good and we began to work it.

As we drilled in class, we found that there was a definite lag time when mounting the rifle on the left side. Guys would get off the X quickly and there would be a l;ag time until they remounted the rifle. The problem with this is that the bad guy would have adjusted fire by now.

It occurred to me that natural movement could be conducted and immediate fire placed on the adversary IF we mounted the rifle in the opposite shoulder. Basically the right hand remained on the pistol grip and the left hand on the handguard (for right handed shooter), but the rifle was mounted into the left shoulder. This facilitated moving left quickly while firing into the targets AS the students moved. Then after the first volley, the hands would be switched into their appropriate positions.

Hits were fine up close and movement was natural and quick.

[fish78]

Very interesting...

[John Chambers]

Wow! What a concept. This would also seem to be an argument in favor of a shorter length of pull on your rifle too. I will have to work on this and see how a M16 compares to an AK or M4 with the stock collapsed.

[Cold War Scout]

Anthony:

I am pretty sure the Royal Greenjackets showed us this technique during CIC training in Berlin circa 1977.

[John Chambers]

Anthony:

I am pretty sure the Royal Greenjackets showed us this technique during CIC training in Berlin circa 1977.

More "lost knowledge" rediscovered by those looking for a better way? The depth of knowledge that is present in this forum never ceases to amaze me!

[Gabe Suarez]

Gents,

Its so out-of-the-box simple I am sure someone else has already done it at some point. Present a problem and do not limit the method of solution and we will all end up at a similar conclusion.

[Anthony]

Back in the 'good old days' ;) when the British Army etc still used the FAL, prior to Northern Ireland service, ambidextrous rifle use was practised, and practised and........well you get the idea.
So much so, that at the Lydd & Hyth ranges, everybody shot the courses of fire first strong side, then week.
This technique was shown, but generally we swapped our rifles constantly into the apropriate shoulder depending on what side was best for use of cover, or where we were looking, - ie: our arcs of fire. A rifleman watching to the right right, shouldered his weapon for fire to the right.
The rear man walked backwards.
Etc.
Swapping sides became natural and quick.
I really don't know what happened with the introduction of the bloody SA80 ? - I couldn't really care. I don't like them and would never want to use one.
Regards,
Anthony.

[karl johnson]

With light rifles (AR, AK, SMG) I've been known to throw them out like a big pistol when I needed to get rounds that way and move another. I'll be trying the right handed-left shouldered thing in the living room tonight as soon as the trunk monkey goes to bed.

Two hands are better than one. But two legs are still better than four!

An hour later:

Oh for heaven's sake! That is so easy, especially with an aimpoint/eotech etc, I'm embarrassed I never thought of it! I'd ALWAYS tried switching hands with shoulders and decided that in the heat it was a no-go for me (I'm bizarrely right handed).

[Jim Fuller]

I practice ambidexderious shooting regulary but this was the first time I had seen or tried this. It is easy to do and very effective.
thanks Gabe,

Jim Fuller

[DaveJames]

Gabe, sounds good,, but have you tried just putting the butt into the center of the chest as well,, have done this with the MP's and it seems to work as well, and doesn't for me feel as off