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  1. #1

    Default AK Complaints....get over them?

    So after getting to take out a friends AK and trying to decide if I want that, an ar15 or maybe a FAL, I noticed a few things about the ak that bugged me. I wanted to see if perhaps they bugged others and you get used it if you buy it, or they drove you up the wall and you got rid of it.

    1.) magazine changes seem to be a bit of a pain, both to dump it and seat it.

    2.) the ergonomics are just...weird. It seems weird to reach over and charge it, it maybe a bit short for me (6'3"), and maybe something of an odd to operate safety.

    I'm wondering if perhaps some of it is just whatever model he had was a bit rough, or if you just adapt as you shoot one for a while? I'm certainly attracted to its reliability and price but am a little concerned about these things.

    Also hows it seem to pay $390 out the door for a new romanian wasr side folder?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    The AKs are much different than ARs. Like Gabe says, don't try to run them like an AR or make them run like an AR.

    The ergonomics of an AK may take some getting used to but they're fine once you do get used to them. The bolt hold open is not that big a deal and something else that most find strange after shooting ARs/M-16s.
    AKs are very simple...simple to operate, field strip and maintain. That simplicity has a lot to do with the overall reliability. They aren't fancy but they work. ;)

    As for the short stock there are longer "NATO length" versions available as replacements for you taller guys. Me being shorter I'm fine with the Warsaw Pact length.
    And, as you mentioned...the price is so far much better than ARs or FALs.

    Cheers!

  3. #3
    While the stock is kind of annoying, I'm kind of tempted by the side folder because it'd be easier to carry in a bag discretely then an AR. I've never held a folder, can they be fired while folded?

    The mag seating and hold back seemed like the biggest thing to me as something to go wrong under pressure, but it sounds like that might become 2nd nature after a while....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    The mag changes are less irritating than Mini14 mag changes.
    "Many men are able, most aren't willing"
    J.B. Books

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,175
    I've never held a folder, can they be fired while folded?

    If the question is can you hold it with the stock folded and press the trigger and the weapon goes bang then the answer is yes.

    If the question is can you hit anything while doing this and people are shooting at you then the answer is no.

    I hate folding stocks they get people killed.

    Yoni

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Davenport, IA
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    My big problem with AKs isn't the mags, or the wrong-side charging (though they both bother me a lot). It's the fact that you have to hear a click to know your mag is empty, and even then it MAY be a FTFire. For this reason alone I can't get used to the idea of an AK in a fighting situation.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    My big problem with AKs isn't the mags, or the wrong-side charging (though they both bother me a lot).

    Actually the charging handle is the same one on the M1 Garand, M14, and M1 Carbine. It never seemed to bother anyone until it was on an AK-47.

    It's the fact that you have to hear a click to know your mag is empty, and even then it MAY be a FTFire. For this reason alone I can't get used to the idea of an AK in a fighting situation.

    Hmm. I just wrote about that. Its an academic question. With the AR all you'll know is the trigger is dead. Then you will need to determine what is wrong with it. I will bet in a fight (different from the range) you won't be able to automatically know you need to reload. And if you follow IAD of going to pistol, its a non-issue. But perhaps I am trying to make things too simple
    Gabriel Suarez

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    For those that have trouble with the AK system:
    I think that a lot of people don't see the AK firearm for what it is...it's a tool. It's only a tool. There is nothing wrong with the tool. The operator is the 'computer brain' behind the tool. Instead of trying to change the tool, the computer working the tool needs to be reprogrammed.

    I also feel that a warrior should own both an AK and an AR variant. Owning and using both frequently will allow one to flow seamlessly between the two systems. Take both to the range and spend equal time with each. Or spend an entire hunting season using both weapons. Nothing will bring you closer to understanding every little nuance of any weapon system more than using it will. Learn to take it apart and reassemble it in the dark, by touch only.
    Do this and you should be able to flow between both AK and AR type systems without any trouble, and you will accept the differences to the point that they won't matter to you.
    After all, it's only a tool.;)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    [quote=Soybomb]
    1.) magazine changes seem to be a bit of a pain, both to dump it and seat it.

    2.) the ergonomics are just...weird. It seems weird to reach over and charge it, it maybe a bit short for me (6'3"), and maybe something of an odd to operate safety.

    quote]



    The mag changes just like an M14/M1A FAL or G3 and several other "battle rifles". Yes it is slower and less "pistol like" than an AR, but I HONESTLY think that that is not as big an issue as people make it out to be. Sure it is faster in a MATCH, but in real world situations I don't know that it will be as big a deal. After all, in a match we stand in the open engaging 10 or more targets. Do that in REAL world and I garauntee you WILL get shot!!

    Also in a civillian context you probably will not have to empty a 30rd AK mag. If you do, get behind cover and change the mag or draw your pistol. I carry a G17 with 19rd mag. So I have 28 rds in my AK and the 20 rd in my pistol. So that is 50 rounds to fire before I HAVE to reload. That may put things in better perspective. Going to the pistol is faster than a mag change, EVEN WITH AN AR!!

    And the difference is not that big in changing mags if you don't drop 'em to the ground. I have timed myself reloading the AK from a chest rig. Starting at the "click" of the trigger being pulled on an empty chamber, pulling the mag from the gun, stuffing it in the cargo pocket of my shorts, grabbing fresh mag and reinserting it, reaching under the receiver and running the bolt to chamber a round takes right at 4 seconds. If you store the AR mag and don't just let it fall, then it is not MUCH faster with the AR. But again when is the last time you heard of a civillian gunfight lasting that many RIFLE rounds?

    Also on the ergonomics, yes they are different, but a pump shotgun is different than a semi auto shotgun too and we can make them both run fine! You train to get used to them. And you might try reaching UNDER the gun to catch the charging handle. I usually use my index and middle finger of my right hand to wipe off the safety and bring my left hand UNDER the receiver, behind the mag, to grab the bolt handle. Those seem to work well. Or use your left hand under the receiver, pulling down the safety to take it off. That works better if your gun has a REALLY stiff safety.

    They are different, but if you put in the time to learn them, you will find that they more than make up for their "difference" in their reliability. It may be faster to change an AR mag, but it darn sure is not faster to clear AR malfunctions.ARs are MUCH more prone to malfunctions.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soybomb
    I've never held a folder, can they be fired while folded?
    ----------
    Firing a folding stock gun is just different than when the stock is extended. It takes some practice, but decent accuracy can be obtained with a little practice.
    When I first got an HK MP5K-PDW gun, the guys from HK showed us how to deploy the guy with the stock folded, and it worked extremely well as far as accuracy and functionality went. To deploy the gun and achieve accuracy, they taught us to use their sling as the 3rd attachment point to the body, pushing the gun out as far as your arms could go. Before doing this, we had extended our arms holding the weapon, and then taken up all the slack in the sling to make it tight when our arms were at full extension. That tightness of the sling works as a third attachment point to the body which allows pretty good accuracy with just a minimal amount of practice.
    I have tried this with my folding stock AK with the same results. The only problem encountered was that mine is an underfolder, and manipulating the safety lever was dang near impossible to do with the stock folded. The underfolder stock has a notch cut into it to allow the outer protrusion of the safety lever to pass through it, but getting my finger down in there to push it through is pretty tough. (Also be aware that if you 'pick up' an AK, it may be select-fire, and that first position is the 'full-auto' position) In a hostile environment, not a problem as the safety won't be on anyway. But in a potentially hostile environment, with lots of friendlies around, (such as manning a neighborhood checkpoint in the aftermath of a natural disaster) one would have to use his best judgement as to condition of carry of the AK.

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