Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 41 to 50 of 50
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Exiled in Texas
    Posts
    8,047
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    Like your friend, most cops will arrest you or give you a ticket if they don’t know you. It’s their job, some have different jobs. Most people have no idea what it’s like to be one because they can only imagine it and what they think they would do. Most of these guys and girls that are Leo in whatever department arnt as stupid as you think. They can see and understand what is going on, and know somthing isn’t right. But, what people are asking them to do is what, give up there retirement and livleyhood for shit that dosnt effect them? They are just people trying to do their job and go home..... That’s kinda what we all do. If people want to truly demonize someone look at the fascist bureaucrats trying to fuck up our country, trying to use guys like your buddy..... It’s fucked, and hopfully 2024 can straighten some of it out or Atleast prolong their agenda, or they won’t have to make news stories of just demonizing they will get real stories....
    I concur with all of this. This is the pragmatic view. The difficulty, though, is that pragmatism and ethics are utterly irreconcilable here. In 1938, the German police were just doing their job. And I’m confident that there were some good German cops who continued to do their jobs all the way through the war, and never found themselves in the position of being told to push Jews into boxcars. But would the resistance fighters have distinguished between those guys and the Gestapo? Should they have?

    Ironically, the two groups of people who have frequently justified their unethical decisions to me as being necessary to provide for their loved ones are cops and drug dealers.

    One of my closest friends worked as a cop in Georgia and Arizona. I always perceived his view of ethics as rather simplistic. He was adamant that he would never violate his ethical code. I occasionally wondered what he would do if his faith was truly tested. In the end, he won. The day finally came when he was ordered to do something that he knew was wrong. That was the day he got fired. And I couldn’t have been prouder to call him my friend. I wish we had more like him.
    Virtute et Armis

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,074
    If you haven’t read the book “Ordinary Men” you should do so.
    I was born for a storm, and a calm does not suit me. - Andrew Jackson

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    5,881
    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    If you haven’t read the book “Ordinary Men” you should do so.
    Yes. Should be required reading, if such a thing still exists.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.

    P:28

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    49,804
    My POV in Bold

    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    Like your friend, most cops will arrest you or give you a ticket if they donít know you. Itís their job, some have different jobs.

    That depends on the agency, the man, and how you present yourself. Here in AZ, they re not fishing for a chicken shit arrest like they do in Cali. If you come off like an asshole, you are likely to get treated like one...OTOH, if you are respectful and don't look, act like a hood rat, probably not. Again its agency and regional dependent. CHP for example would ticket their own mothers on the way to their grandmother's funeral.

    Most people have no idea what itís like to be one because they can only imagine it and what they think they would do. Most of these guys and girls that are Leo in whatever department arnt as stupid as you think. They can see and understand what is going on, and know somthing isnít right.

    I think most people that can think for themselves, don't mind being labelled "racist" or whatever can also see and know what is going on. Its not that complicated.

    But, what people are asking them to do is what, give up there retirement and livleyhood for shit that dosnt effect them? They are just people trying to do their job and go home..... Thatís kinda what we all do.

    That is dead on. I recall making fun of the oath keeper stuff saying that nobody was going to give up the sometimes considerable pay and benefits for somebody else's "rights". Unless that defiance of law and directives came from a chief or a sheriff, the troops would do as they were told. Those that argued vehemently were quite silent during the 2020 and 2021 fuckery where people's businesses were forceably closed and gyms were invaded and so on. Lots of rights violated those two years and I didn't see any mass resignations because of it.

    If people want to truly demonize someone look at the fascist bureaucrats trying to fuck up our country, trying to use guys like your buddy..... Itís fucked, and hopfully 2024 can straighten some of it out or Atleast prolong their agenda, or they wonít have to make news stories of just demonizing they will get real stories....
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    49,804
    My POV again

    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    I concur with all of this. This is the pragmatic view.

    And for men of action...that the only view that really matters.

    The difficulty, though, is that pragmatism and ethics are utterly irreconcilable here.

    And in the real world...the grey world, not the imaginary black and white world...ethics is an illusion that we try to adhere to but at the end of the day, when your daughter is dying of hunger, every single one of us will go murder somebody else to take their bread to feed their daughter. Yes its murder...yes its a sin and illegal and all of that jazz...but most will not sacrifice their daughter's life for an idea. We solve the problem, sometimes with red hands, then we worry and argue about whether it was right and ethical when it is safe to do so.

    In 1938, the German police were just doing their job. And I’m confident that there were some good German cops who continued to do their jobs all the way through the war, and never found themselves in the position of being told to push Jews into boxcars. But would the resistance fighters have distinguished between those guys and the Gestapo? Should they have?

    Well...we always seem to gravitate to Germany but there are plenty of examples far more recent. See the excesses of communism since 1945 to present. If you ask a jihadist who the bad guy is, he points to the Americans he plans to kill. He sees himself as the good guy in his own story. Arguing with him about ethics is like trying to teach your dog to play Mozart. What is ethical and proper all depends on your world view and your self image. And as well...something I think was ta play in Germany is the information the operators were given. It wasn't common Germans or German police who were eradicating Jews. In fact many Germans were shocked at the camps. Hitler used his true believers to carry out those things. And as I said...a true believr has differnt ethics.

    Ironically, the two groups of people who have frequently justified their unethical decisions to me as being necessary to provide for their loved ones are cops and drug dealers.

    So what. Provide is food and shelter...not a new BMW. And I dont believe in the "slippery slope" notion here. We follow the rules so we can live, work, and thrive in modern civilized society. But that is a light veneer we have and not who or what we really are. That veneer can be stripped away easily when the need arises. Cops and drug dealers? Could be that they both have a real view of the world and not an academic one. Foolish accountant, pastor, or lawyer who watches his family die because he refused to commit a crime.


    One of my closest friends worked as a cop in Georgia and Arizona. I always perceived his view of ethics as rather simplistic. He was adamant that he would never violate his ethical code. I occasionally wondered what he would do if his faith was truly tested. In the end, he won. The day finally came when he was ordered to do something that he knew was wrong. That was the day he got fired. And I couldn’t have been prouder to call him my friend. I wish we had more like him.

    Well...depends what that code is. The Burton quote on "self made laws" comes to mind. I would rather die that fail to live up to my own code...but you might be surprised at what that code is in comparison to what captain america might have. I will also say that there are a myriad of ways to "not make a cake" for the lesbian wedding that doesn't involve getting fired. See "the art of violating a direct order".

    What is your mission? Keep all my pay and benefits without violating my personal code? Or making a martyr of myself publically for my beliefs and then be replaced and forgotten about in less than a month...but still be without a job or benefits?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    49,804
    And one more -

    Lets NOT color the FBI and Local LE with the same brush.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    And one more -

    Lets NOT color the FBI and Local LE with the same brush.
    Yeah, not the same.....
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    459
    Maybe the FBI is using the same playbook as Bill Gates and and his cronies. He and Fauci said we were going to have a coronavirus epidemic, and magically one appeared out of the blue. You just have to realize that they contributed to its creation. Maybe the FBI is resurrecting operation Northwood, only this time conservatives will be blamed. One has to realize the ideology of the justice culture that inhabits DC has not changed since Obama. They still consider vets, those who believe in the Constitution and Christians as terrorists. They have only added those who believe in election fraud, gun owners, and republicans to the list. That list is over half of the US population. I think they do indeed want to incite revolution. Do believe the current regime would call out the military to quench rebellion, as they would call it, Constitution be damned. They might even ask for help from the blue hats. For certain, the Law of Unintended Consequences will rear itís interesting head, which is something I donít believe they ever consider. Beans and bullets rule, guys. Think Iíll spend a little time in the reloading room tonight.
    Last edited by ronlassit; 08-23-2022 at 04:28 PM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    5,881
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlassit View Post
    Maybe the FBI is using the same playbook as Bill Gates and and his cronies. He and Fauci said we were going to have a coronavirus epidemic, and magically one appeared out of the blue. You just have to realize that they contributed to its creation. Maybe the FBI is resurrecting operation Northwood, only this time conservatives will be blamed. One has to realize the ideology of the justice culture that inhabits DC has not changed since Obama. They still consider vets, those who believe in the Constitution and Christians as terrorists. They have only added those who believe in election fraud, gun owners, and republicans to the list. That list is over half of the US population. I think they do indeed want to incite revolution. Do believe the current regime would call out the military to quench rebellion, as they would call it, Constitution be damned. They might even ask for help from the blue hats.
    Hey, they're just trying to save America--

    from Americans.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.

    P:28

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    49,804
    You know...at the end of the day, if you are private citizen, or a deputy, or an officer...and specifically NOT an FBI agent, does anything they say about threats to THEM have any bearing on us? Mmmmmmm....nope. One harvests what they plant...as it were. No compassion nor sympathy from me.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •