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Thread: Big Bore AR-15

  1. #11
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    I have a cut down 4570 and it is handy. In many ways a 458 socom is a mag fed semi auto, or full if you have the lower lol, 4570. 450 bushmaster is less interesting since its not as flexible in the range of loads that can me made. I think 450's parent case is 458 socom anyway lol.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    I have a cut down 4570 and it is handy. In many ways a 458 socom is a mag fed semi auto, or full if you have the lower lol, 4570.
    Full-auto .45/70. I'm grinning just thinking about that.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    I think 450's parent case is 458 socom anyway lol.
    450 pc is 284
    458 is 50ae
    I was born for a storm, and a calm does not suit me. - Andrew Jackson

  4. #14
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    For any of these, the Dead Air Primal suppressor will work (.46 caliber). Added flexibility as the AR uppers usually come threaded.

    I have a 458 SOCOM upper and bought some of the crazy solid projectiles that have amazing penetration. A 30 round mag becomes a 10 rounder but it has proven reliable and is everything a 5.56 is NOT. It's more affordable to buy an upper than to get a custom lever gun for sure.

  5. #15
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    Interesting side note:

    In Canada, rifle magazines are limited to 5 rounds. Pistol magazines are limited to 10 rounds. Some brilliant fellow imported a few .458 SOCOM AR15 pistols, purely to get the magazines for them. For a while (before the powers-that-be noticed), you could buy standard capacity AR15 magazines in Canada that were labeled as .458 SOCOM pistol mags (including a big warning sticker to not use them in a rifle).

    That guy deserves an honorary law degree.
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  6. #16
    I have a .450 Bushmaster that I have played with a little and big sister .45 Raptor that I have played with very little. The Bushmaster has a medium profile 18" Satern barrel and I also got the bare upper from Satern. The Raptor is a 16" medium profile from Satern as well. Between my pop and I, we own 4 and have assembled and sold 3 more Satern big bores and they were all winners. I am currently trying to figure out the magazine mods for his bolt action Raptor as we put it in an MDT chassis that requires AICS mags.
    The Bushmaster is a ton of fun to handload/ reload for. If you dig into Tim Legendre's work, you will see all of the possibilities and maybe never financially recover. The Legendre crimp was my last fascination in this area and I have the cut up dies to prove it, totally screws brass but deviations are drastically cut (accuracy benefits) and burn is complete. I have exactly one box of factory ammo through mine and the rest (200 to 300) have been built from scratch with new (Hornady) brass. From what I have experienced, you can't go wrong as far as accuracy with Lil Gun @38 grains pushing a 225 grain FTX. It just so happens that the 225 gr FTX is or was (haven't looked in a while) identical in construction as far as jacket thickness to the 200 and 250 FTX at roughly half the price. These are pistol bullets though so they are out of class when you push them around 2300 and will come apart. I'm ok with that personally but the hunters complain about it and claim the FTX is junk and never stop to realize that they are used way beyond their design in this application. The Barnes XPB for the .45 Colt and .460 S&W have seen some flight from mine as well with no drama.

  7. #17
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    Paul does the 450 use unmodified 5.56 mags?
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  8. #18
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    I have 16" uppers in both 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster. Vortex 3-9x44 scopes on both.

    The magazines can be problematic, depending on the ones used. I needed to modify the front of the magazine so the bullet wouldn't catch on them as their sliding forward. It's relatively easy to do with a Dremel. Most AR magazines are flat across and it needs more of a U shape to clear. Doesn't need much. Go slow and test often.
    You can buy magazines for both calibers that are already "fixed".

    Both are fun to shoot. I shoot the 350 Legend more since the local Walmart usually has ammo cheaper. 450 Bushmaster is harder to find and fairly expensive.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    I have shot all of these. (Alaska is a weird place.) But I've only been through a mag or so of each, and they were far separated in time; I didn't get to shoot them side by side. My minimal experience left me with this impression:

    It is a weird attempt to turn an AR-15 into a slug gun. It radically alters the recoil impulse in a bad way. It cuts the capacity of the gun down to something like a tube-fed gun. The role in which I saw them cast was that of a defensive bear gun. After shooting them, I would definitely have chosen to just stick to an 870 for that purpose.

    I lack sufficient interest to devote my own time and money to the experiment, but I would be more interested in seeing the results of an AR-15 chambered in .338 or .358. The jump to .308 is easy and seamless. The jump to .458+ is--to my eye--a step too far. But I'm not sure where the dividing line really exists. How much ammo capacity is lost with a .358? Is the little case capable of propelling those bullets to enough speed to be effective?

    I don't have a lot of information to add, but realizing that these are pretty rare I figured I'd share my $0.02.
    That matches my experience and feelings about the 45 cal big bore AR15 rounds as well. Nothing wrong with them if people like them, but they just don't really do it for me. But that's also why I built my own .358 cal ARs based on a wildcat of the old 357 Herett cartridge and the 6.8 SPC case. You shot the subsonic version suppressed at the GS class in Madras, but like the 300 Blk, it'll go both ways. The hot version in a 16" AR is a ballistic match for the old 35 Remington from a 20" lever action - a 200gr at 2150 fps. While that sounds pretty ho-hum on paper, it's a nice combination that's been really effective on 150-225 lb animals for me, and it's a bit more of a thumper but not so much as to prevent rapid and accurate shots. Mag capacity takes a little bit of a hit but not too bad, same as the 6.8 SPC - 25 rounds or so in a mag the same size as a 30rd 5.56.

    There are a few other wildcat variations of something similar floating around, but nobody makes a commercial version of this round. For whatever reason, 35 cal rifle rounds just aren't sexy and cool in the American market, so I doubt there ever will be a successful commercial version, even though it works really well.

    I have a 350 Legend as well, but am not very impressed. Besides being a step down in power, it's much more finicky about bullet profiles for feeding, and there are several aspects of it that appear to have suffered from "designed by committee" syndrome. Other than just wanting a commercial 35 caliber AR, for those weird few of us who like 35's, it's only real reason for existence seems to be the straight-wall cartridge hunting limitation in a couple states like Indiana. It's not complete crap, but it could be so much more than it is.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat View Post
    I have a .450 Bushmaster that I have played with a little and big sister .45 Raptor that I have played with very little. The Bushmaster has a medium profile 18" Satern barrel and I also got the bare upper from Satern. The Raptor is a 16" medium profile from Satern as well. Between my pop and I, we own 4 and have assembled and sold 3 more Satern big bores and they were all winners. I am currently trying to figure out the magazine mods for his bolt action Raptor as we put it in an MDT chassis that requires AICS mags.
    The Bushmaster is a ton of fun to handload/ reload for. If you dig into Tim Legendre's work, you will see all of the possibilities and maybe never financially recover. The Legendre crimp was my last fascination in this area and I have the cut up dies to prove it, totally screws brass but deviations are drastically cut (accuracy benefits) and burn is complete. I have exactly one box of factory ammo through mine and the rest (200 to 300) have been built from scratch with new (Hornady) brass. From what I have experienced, you can't go wrong as far as accuracy with Lil Gun @38 grains pushing a 225 grain FTX. It just so happens that the 225 gr FTX is or was (haven't looked in a while) identical in construction as far as jacket thickness to the 200 and 250 FTX at roughly half the price. These are pistol bullets though so they are out of class when you push them around 2300 and will come apart. I'm ok with that personally but the hunters complain about it and claim the FTX is junk and never stop to realize that they are used way beyond their design in this application. The Barnes XPB for the .45 Colt and .460 S&W have seen some flight from mine as well with no drama.
    Thanks for sharing your experiences, I've had my eye on the 45 Raptor; I shoot a 460 S&W revolver and the Raptor is just a rimless version of that (or a straight wall 308, depending which way you want to look at it), so it has some real appeal. Just haven't tried it yet. They aren't cheap but I've had good results with the 300gr Swift A-Frame, as well as some 315 and 380gr hard cast bullets. BTW if you haven't tried it, the new-ish Accurate No. 11FS powder offers some performance gains over previously available options.

    Something occurs to me that might be interesting to try in your Raptor - for my 460, and other 45 cal revolvers before it, I built a mold to cast 82gr wadcutters, with the idea to stack several of them in a case. the 460 will take 7 of them, although I usually use 6. In the Raptor it'll depend on the internal case taper of your brass, but you should be able to fit 4 of them or so behind a 200gr FTX (I doubt you'd get the full wadcutters to feed otherwise). Since the barrel is rifled, they do stay square to the target and leave round holes. Even a mild load with these is a bit much for a small game load though, and I'm not sure what other purpose they'd serve unless you're trying to clear a room maybe :) but they're interesting to experiment with.

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