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  1. #21
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    Agreed. When I was considering Pastorship (is that a word?), I researched many things in their original language. Aramaic, Latin, Greek, etc. Much of what the simplified american social church professes is simply not what it means. I also noted that there were a few versions of the Bible out there that were never recognized by either Catholics nor Protestants. The Geneva Bible...of course...and there is even an Ethiopian Bible. Read them all. The Geneva Bible, for example, predated the King James.

    And King James? Are we to think he was totally selfless in its crafting? Why should we consider a bible financed by a government as the final word? Would we take a Joe Biden Ministry of Truth Bible seriously? One wonders what regime protecting skullduggery went on between King James and the hapless translators.

    The word "love" in English is a silly and almost meaningless word. In spanish at least there are more words to describe things such as affection, friendship, erotic love, etc. (I think spanish is the best language to swear with...but that is for another topic). Where I take issue with the love business is that there are in fact people that I have a serious dislike for...to the point that I would watch them perish without lifting a finger...some whom I might prod over the edge if given a chance.

    I suspect there may be guys far holier and more pious that I that can actually want the best for everyone...but that is not me. And I don't want to change that. That would make me not me...and I rather like myself the way I am. Nor would it be proper to lie about it to anyone...much less God. He knows my heart and knows that some people I despise. And its not that seething active hatred that pastors have made a a career of warning everyone about...rather a passive state of things. I don't like pizza, Golshlagger, or electric cars. But I hate communists. There is a difference.

    And then we get into the messy comparisons that make soft liberal love everyone pastors so uneasy. The opposite of love is hate...we assume (it is actually indifference...but for the sake of a simple pop culture comparison). Is it ok to hate stuff?

    Romans 12:9 - Hate what is evil, cling to what is good. Other words used...detest...abhor..and others. Are there no evil people to despise, detest, abhor? I bet I can find a few most rikki tik.

    My personal definitions are clear and simple...just like the combat skills we teach. The older I get the less I prefer ambiguities and vague notions that need to be discussed at length to get to the bottom of. I will be good and kind to most people I come across...but there are only a very few that I would actually say I "love" regardless of what the definition may be. And then...then there is the other group.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyOblivion View Post
    As I've said before, English isn't a language, it's a trade patios developed between Roman soldiers and bartenders and prostitutes that has spent the last thousand years lurking in alleys and mugging other languages for words and grammar.

    I used to be a philosophy student, and I have this "Dictionary of Philosophy". The definition for "love" is hilarious. It says "See Eros, Agape, Philia".

    They left out stoge.

    We love our children(stoge), this is not the same love as we feel for our spouses(at least one of eros, philia--hopefully), and it's not the same type of feeling that a true believer has for their God (agape). We have friendships with varying degrees of affection (philia again), some of them bordering the level of love we feel for our spouse without the erotic component.

    Heck, how many of you have *really* good friends who have had 2 or 3 spouses or serious long term relationships in the time you've been friends with them?

    Given that the bible was originally written in Greek, then filtered into Latin, then translated into English before being "reformed" into a more informal English it's not surprising that some of the nuance got left out.

    I suspect, given the 10 commandments, that Jesus did not want me to love my neighbors the way I "Eros" myself (there's an eye wash station over -->).

    But I suspect that the Bible is deeper than we give it credit for.

    I suspect that there's a different spin on "love" in that commandment. One more in line with the sort of thing that comes out in bad times--neighbors filling sandbags together, forming bucket brigades, wandering around in fields in the middle of the night looking for missing children.

    Or running towards the sound of gunfire to kill the bad guy before he hurts any more people.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    That would make me not me...and I rather like myself the way I am.
    Be careful to not give yourself permission to wallow in your own sin. This justification is exactly the same justification given by the pro-homosexual movement. Simply saying, "I was born this way," doesn't make it okay. While the sins of others may be repugnant to us, we all become comfortable with our own sins. It can be difficult to admit that our thinking is wrong, but it is a necessary first step. We have to recognize and accept our own errors before we can repent of them.
    Virtute et Armis

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    Be careful to not give yourself permission to wallow in your own sin. This justification is exactly the same justification given by the pro-homosexual movement. Simply saying, "I was born this way," doesn't make it okay. While the sins of others may be repugnant to us, we all become comfortable with our own sins. It can be difficult to admit that our thinking is wrong, but it is a necessary first step. We have to recognize and accept our own errors before we can repent of them.

    At this point in my life I don't care what anyone else does. And I am surely not going to take another person's view on what is right or wrong for me. On the example - If two dudes want to get married I really don't care...as long as they take care of their own business and do not want me to pay for anything. No offense to anyone who feels otherwise, but I am understanding more and more why my Sundays are no longer spent in church.

    Moving on
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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