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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    9,105
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    THE NIGHT VISION GAME

    IS NOT FOR THE FRUGAL MINDED
    .
    .
    I tried that, point shooting with a really fucked up field of view.... Mine are the gen prior to the 14s, you can make them work but it’s less then ideal.....
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    9,105
    They are more for like driving a truck without lights so you don’t drive off a cliff, not for killing people...
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,105
    Pvs 5, old stuff buy once and cry once.... I can make them work but there is way better options....
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,105
    7B976951-3729-4EC3-9E1E-DC5E6A2C7643.jpg

    We have gone over this before but gen 1 and 2 are worse then that picture in real life. 1 is super grainy and your targets look ghost like, 2 is alittle better and there is pretty bitchen.... Even my unit if you can find them are like 1200-1500 dollars, pay the 1000.00 more and get the 14s... I got mine in a trade, so that was that...
    Last edited by chad newton; 04-07-2022 at 04:52 PM.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,728
    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    Learning a lot here, as NV or Thermal is on my shopping list this year, vs investing in “yet another gun.”

    It sounds like white phos PVS14 is the place to start vs thermal? This would be for rural security, not hunting.
    White vs green phosphor is a personal thing. I've used plenty of green. I like the white better; to me, it's like looking at a black and white TV and doesn't bother my eyes as much/as soon as the traditional approach.

    Yes, I would start with a 14 before a thermal for surveillance. The gold standard is dual tubes, but that isn't a drop-dead gotta have thing. In fact, I'd argue that in a lot of civilian environments where there's going to be at least a little ambient light, the awareness and extra vision that comes from the unaided eye can be a good thing.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    E. Texas
    Posts
    173
    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    Learning a lot here, as NV or Thermal is on my shopping list this year, vs investing in “yet another gun.”

    It sounds like white phos PVS14 is the place to start vs thermal? This would be for rural security, not hunting.
    I started with a used and beaten green phos to try out. But because rural security for me has mostly been chasing off or eliminating smallish wildlife, and my dogs bark at people differently than at animals, a cheap thermal and a white light is usually what is brought forth.
    Thermal is great for finding animals and people that are not hiding very well (though I found a raccoon hiding in a small cedar tree with my Scout TK that then took me a few minutes to see with a bright white light from 10 feet away).
    NODs are better for moving to a better vantage point or to engage. Thermal doesn't show weeds, twigs or fences as good as night vision, barbwire tends to be invisible to my Scout TK. Thermal also doesn't work through glass, which adds some limits to tactical employment. Night vision is also better for recognizing individuals, i.e. dog vs coyote, neighbor vs stranger, etc.

    To add to Sam Spade's comment, at some point I saw a video where a former Ranger/SF/something with a good amount of experience using NODs on raids recommended 14s over binoculars for civilians and those without a team. Binoculars greatly reduce your perception of the available visible light so you can think you are still invisible after the moon comes up or clouds clear out, or underestimate how well you are backlit.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,315
    My opinions.

    On the mono vs. bino question.

    I would suggest anyone start out with mono
    to learn the fundamentals and build up the
    your lights & peripherals as you need for your
    personal requirements. After that you can
    decide if you want to spend the cash on binos.
    You can always sell the mono, or keep it for a
    spare.

    To me there are to many practical reasons to
    run a mono that I do not intend to ever upgrade
    to binocs.

    On green vs white.

    I have a green 14, but I am often handed a white
    phos. I don't really see them as that different,
    just different shade of green. There is definitely
    more contrast with the white, which to me seems
    to make my eyes tired more quickly, but I mitigate
    that by turning down the gain. But on my green
    screen, I can turn up my gain to get more contrast
    to some degree. I do see that white phos is an
    improvement, but not enough for me to sell my
    green in order to upgrade. When I do pony up
    for a second unit, I will have see what the cost
    difference at that time. It just doesn't make a
    significant difference to me.


    Lastly, and I may have mentioned it here in
    another thread, but 2.26 high optic mounts
    for rifle mounted red dots make sighting
    through them pretty much effortless. Getting
    the axis of the NOD in line with the axis of
    the optic is the key. Unity's Fast Micro is
    awesome, but Midwest makes a more
    affordable, but very functional version,
    as well. I have not tried LVPO's behind
    NODs, but Unity makes 2.26 risers for
    those, also.

    Great discussion. Sorry to ramble.
    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Alan Temby
    "Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth"- Oscar Wilde.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    221
    A decent IR unit price wise is the Steiner mini TOR. It was made to run on pistol, but I have mine mounted at 12 o'clock on a 300 BO SBR. Nice switches to activate, and its a variable power unit.( Taping the switch gets you .7,.4,.2 MW) Couple it with a Surefire vampire head and you have a useful combo out to several hundred yards. It is a pain to zero however. The adjustment screws are tiny, and there is no clicks or markings on the unit.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    Learning a lot here, as NV or Thermal is on my shopping list this year, vs investing in “yet another gun.”

    It sounds like white phos PVS14 is the place to start vs thermal? This would be for rural security, not hunting.
    Smash'm,

    That is correct. The general consensus, is you need
    NODs for navigation/surveillance & Thermal for PID.

    In building up a thorough NODs package, you will
    need various IR illuminators, which will help to
    bridge the gap to what Thermal does.

    Start with Nods & then add Thermal, in my opinion,
    unless you have specific need to do otherwise.
    Last edited by Johnny C!; 04-09-2022 at 06:01 AM.
    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Alan Temby
    "Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth"- Oscar Wilde.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,489
    Gabe needs a night vision section of the store. :)

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