YOU'LL GO TO JAIL!!!

[Gabriel Suarez]

And while plan A for me is definitely ballistic.. understand that you need to get into the position where you CAN. Rangework is not the way to fix deficiencies here.

[Dorkface]

So isnt the Pistol Groundfighting series basically a quantification of just that very thing?

Only completely.

[Hasher]

If I recall correctly in the early days of CRG you taught “we are teaching you about fighting in this case it happens to be with a gun but you may have to fight until you can get the gun into action”.

It was a long time ago but I’m pretty sure that’s a somewhat reasonable paraphrase.

This is why we need to be
as strong as we can be (I graduated back up to limited work with the 25lb Kettle bell Friday) as well as working on mobility.

This is why we not only need to carry a knife that can actually cause damage but have at least some skill in using it along with a knowledge of where to do the damage.

[Brent Yamamoto]

So isnt the Pistol Groundfighting series basically a quantification of just that very thing?

Yes. I always say it's not a ground fight. It's a gun fight that happens to be on the ground.

And while plan A for me is definitely ballistic.. understand that you need to get into the position where you CAN. Rangework is not the way to fix deficiencies here.

Very much this.

What I see in class, CONSISTENTLY, is that once the gun guy lands on the ground, he goes for the gun at the wrong time and his partner playing the aggressor is able to take the gun more often than not. TIMING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SPEED. That means that you have to create the conditions to allow for a successful draw. That means being patient, not freaking out, and waiting until you've created the space to successfully draw.

That mindset and skill set is COMPLETELY different than an unimpeded draw on the range.

Pistol Groundfighting is very much a mindset class that gets the lesson across through physical means.

But it's definitely a physical skills class. The idea isn't complicated...but becoming good at it isn't easy.

1. Avoid being injured (or limit your injury to the extent possible)
2. Don't let the bastard take your gun
3. Make the space to draw
4. Shoot the bastard

By the middle of the second day, the gun guys are pretty successfully doing the right things. By the time they've gone through the class they've had multiple gun fights on the ground. They've made all the mistakes, they've learned the right lessons in a safe environment where they won't get killed.

Learning those lessons for the first time is substantially harder when it's for blood.

I think for most guys who have been through this class, if they land on the ground it will be like riding a bike. Not pretty perhaps, but they know how to ride. Being able to out-jujitsu another jujitsu guy means constant practice of that specialty. Being able to out-shoot a jujitsu guy just requires you can draw in a challenged environment. Basically, you must know how to move.

If you know how to move honestly I don't think it's that hard. If you don't know how to move...well, I'll send flowers.

[GhostRidder]

I'm a low level BJJ blue belt. When there is as an odd number and I get to sit out a round I'l go watch a high ranking pair. The instructor is a pan am champion. But, when his wrapped up with another opponent I'm pretty sure I could knock him out with a few kicks to head. If me and his opponent worked together I'm pretty sure I could choke him out two on one.

The only reason I do BJJ is so I can get back up quickly are at least get to a dominant position to draw. Position before submission and a entire magazine from a G19 is one hell of a submission.

[Brent Yamamoto]

The only reason I do BJJ is so I can get back up quickly are at least get to a dominant position to draw. Position before submission and a entire magazine from a G19 is one hell of a submission.

This is the right mindset for training any ground system, IMO.

The jointlocks, chokes, fancy stuff...all that is interesting and useful. But not useful in the way most people think...not useful for the skill itself but for the ATTRIBUTES YOU DEVELOP WHILE PRACTICING THOSE SKILLS. Biggest benefit by far is simply learning how to move. Submission grappling is useful not for the submissions but as a training vehicle to learn ground mobility. (Ok, to be fair there are circumstances where you don't necessarily want to shoot the other guy, but those are not life and death serious and that's not what we are talking about here.)

Biggest threat isn't from the grapplers IMO, it's from the guys standing around stomping your skull in. But the movement skill is applicable to everything.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Any BJJ guys know the name Royce Gracie. He carries an SI G19. He believes the best technique for multiple opponents on the street comes from Austria.

[Gabriel Suarez]

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[Brent Yamamoto]

The other attribute I failed to mention...I think grappling practice is the single best training method for learning to stay relaxed and keeping your head while under physical pressure. I don't want to say it's "comfortable", but for lack of a better word, one is much stronger and much less fearful when you are "comfortable" with grappling a big, strong opponent trying to hurt you. Again it's not the grappling techniques that benefit you, but the attributes developed from this training.

I'm primarily a striker (that includes guns and also why I say the Pistol Groundfighting class is much more based on Karate than Jujutsu), but grappling made me a better striker and a better gunfighter.

All this stuff is connected.

Hopefully we have sufficiently pounded this issue into the ground at this point.

[Papa]

In my time on the street (can't believe I just wrote that) wristy-twisty never worked except with compliant subjects.

And depending on the subject, throat strikes and going for the long ball with a hickory stick could fail, too.

I have no ROE now. I don't give a f*** how many cell phones are running.

Papa's going home under his own power.