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  1. #21
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    Mar 2012
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    Thank you for articulating and sharpening my thinking on this issue, LD. Well said!
    "If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself." — Augustine

    "That upon which you set your heart and put your trust is your god." — Martin Luther

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Illinois
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    I can’t really add anything to what Lawdog said. He said it all.

    Not everyone who is on the “right” is on the side of liberty either. One of my former coworkers is as hard right conservative as it gets. I’ve never met a more right-wing, liberal-hating, liberTY loving conservative human being in my life, or so I thought. We had often discussed politics and such (yeah, I know, politics at work...) and almost never found a point of disagreement between us. Until one day, he started on a monologue like he would often do, and this time the monologue was about vaccines. He held the position that all people should be vaccinated, without exception, and to not do so was selfish and evil. Furthermore, the government ought to mandate the Covid vaccine to all persons, with harsh penalties for non-compliance. I asked him what kind of penalties he thought would be appropriate for refusing the vaccine, and without hesitating, he responded, “they should be isolated from society and locked in camps.” Shocked, and more than a bit angry at this point, I told him, “I’m not planning on getting the Covid vaccine, do you think *I* should be locked in a camp?” He didn’t even blink. He looked me right in the eye, and flatly said, “yes.” He looked at me like I wasn’t even a human being at that moment. He wasn’t being hyperbolic. He meant exactly what he said.

    Just because someone is right-wing, or conservative, or even generally liberty-minded, don’t assume they’re on your side. Always verify. ALWAYS.
    - I am not in danger. I AM the danger.

    - Keep your rifle by your side.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    5,138
    Quote Originally Posted by MesserMan View Post
    I can’t really add anything to what Lawdog said. He said it all.

    Not everyone who is on the “right” is on the side of liberty either. One of my former coworkers is as hard right conservative as it gets. I’ve never met a more right-wing, liberal-hating, liberTY loving conservative human being in my life, or so I thought. We had often discussed politics and such (yeah, I know, politics at work...) and almost never found a point of disagreement between us. Until one day, he started on a monologue like he would often do, and this time the monologue was about vaccines. He held the position that all people should be vaccinated, without exception, and to not do so was selfish and evil. Furthermore, the government ought to mandate the Covid vaccine to all persons, with harsh penalties for non-compliance. I asked him what kind of penalties he thought would be appropriate for refusing the vaccine, and without hesitating, he responded, “they should be isolated from society and locked in camps.” Shocked, and more than a bit angry at this point, I told him, “I’m not planning on getting the Covid vaccine, do you think *I* should be locked in a camp?” He didn’t even blink. He looked me right in the eye, and flatly said, “yes.” He looked at me like I wasn’t even a human being at that moment. He wasn’t being hyperbolic. He meant exactly what he said.

    Just because someone is right-wing, or conservative, or even generally liberty-minded, don’t assume they’re on your side. Always verify. ALWAYS.
    Point taken.

    Also: curious as to how he believes this isolation and incarceration would be enforced--and by whom. The National Guard? A batch of new kids out of the academy? Or is he willing to stand in the fatal funnel?

    Covid has outed a lot of enemies of freedom. Not all are on the left.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.

    P:20

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    A communist state north of the Potomac.
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    605
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    Our communists won't be any different. When liberals show up to buy guns, they are not philosophically joining with us. They are just tooling up to defeat us.

    I have determined that guns are the third line in the conversion process. I don't attempt to bring people to my side by taking them shooting. The first thing everyone needs is Jesus. I will endeavor to save their soul before I work on saving their life. If their soul is secure, then the next line is free market economics. Only after they are a Christian and a capitalist will I worry about ensuring that they are properly armed and trained.
    .
    Jesus>>Freedom>>Guns.

    There is a logical order to whom we should train.

    The last thing we need is a well armed and trained opposition. I'm reminded of the people in jail who spend all their time working out and studying the law (on the taxpayers' dime, no less). Assuming a high recidivism rate, we are training people to become stronger and smarter criminals.

    There is a need to work alongside those who may not be so ideologically pure, if only to get things done. There is power in numbers and volume, but it is important to know who is a true believer and who is along for the ride.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by MesserMan View Post
    I can’t really add anything to what Lawdog said. He said it all.

    Not everyone who is on the “right” is on the side of liberty either. One of my former coworkers is as hard right conservative as it gets. I’ve never met a more right-wing, liberal-hating, liberTY loving conservative human being in my life, or so I thought. We had often discussed politics and such (yeah, I know, politics at work...) and almost never found a point of disagreement between us. Until one day, he started on a monologue like he would often do, and this time the monologue was about vaccines. He held the position that all people should be vaccinated, without exception, and to not do so was selfish and evil. Furthermore, the government ought to mandate the Covid vaccine to all persons, with harsh penalties for non-compliance. I asked him what kind of penalties he thought would be appropriate for refusing the vaccine, and without hesitating, he responded, “they should be isolated from society and locked in camps.” Shocked, and more than a bit angry at this point, I told him, “I’m not planning on getting the Covid vaccine, do you think *I* should be locked in a camp?” He didn’t even blink. He looked me right in the eye, and flatly said, “yes.” He looked at me like I wasn’t even a human being at that moment. He wasn’t being hyperbolic. He meant exactly what he said.

    Just because someone is right-wing, or conservative, or even generally liberty-minded, don’t assume they’re on your side. Always verify. ALWAYS.

    I feel many folks who would otherwise be firmly on "our side" have been duped with the incessant fear peddling by every media outlet known.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
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    4,703
    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter Ready View Post
    Jesus>>Freedom>>Guns.

    There is a logical order to whom we should train.

    The last thing we need is a well armed and trained opposition. I'm reminded of the people in jail who spend all their time working out and studying the law (on the taxpayers' dime, no less). Assuming a high recidivism rate, we are training people to become stronger and smarter criminals.

    There is a need to work alongside those who may not be so ideologically pure, if only to get things done. There is power in numbers and volume, but it is important to know who is a true believer and who is along for the ride.


    We refer to it a "Felon Finishing School" closely related are the Youth Commission detention centers (juvies with REAL crimes under their belt) is referred to as the FFA (Future Felons or America).
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    The New World
    Posts
    2,330
    Weinstein wasn’t on my radar until he was forced to resign From Evergreen State for not being woke enough. Since then I’ve listened to his podcast a few times. What I find interesting and perceive as good is him and his wife are coming around and I’m not just referring to the 2a. Another aspect is they are positively influencing others that conservatives simply do not reach.

    One of the downfalls of academia and the left is they actually do very little and tend to function primarily in the realm of theory and mental masterbation.
    Last edited by paranoid; 11-30-2021 at 06:49 AM.
    Paul

    The greatest threat to America is the “Sleeping Giant” not waking up,

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,712
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    I have determined that guns are the third line in the conversion process. I don't attempt to bring people to my side by taking them shooting. The first thing everyone needs is Jesus. I will endeavor to save their soul before I work on saving their life. If their soul is secure, then the next line is free market economics. Only after they are a Christian and a capitalist will I worry about ensuring that they are properly armed and trained.
    The core principle here is "mindset before weapons" or to borrow from the title of another recent thread "software before hardware". I'd take it a step further and say "mindset before technique before tool" or "strategy before tactics before weapons." And this applies universally - in a self defense context, in a fighting context, in a military context.

    As we have discussed over and over again, optimal tools allow you to express / put to use whatever mindset / skills we have without limitation. To use them properly we need to master the techniques of their use. And even that is meaningless if we haven't got our foundational mindset right.

    As usual, the gun community is usually overly fixated on tools and techniques - I admittedly fall prey to that too. That's what really results in "tactical" sport shooting: focus on tool and technique and ignoring mindset.

    Our founding fathers understood this thinking. I've been studying the American Militia tradition of our forefathers and one point that I have learned is that the term "well regulated militia" referred to a militia that was well disciplined or well trained - had its software right. Equipment, and manual of arms, was secondary (important, but secondary). A well regulated militia could be trained to proficiency in arms. An ill-regulated militia was useless.

    In fact, Thomas Pickering, who was heavily involved in colonial militias and went on to write training manuals for them, and eventually become Secretary of War and Secretary of State, wrote that a colonial militia having "the most perfect Use of the Firelock" but lacking discipline and order and mindset would "be so broken and disordered that our bare Knowledge of the Firelock would do us very little Service and before we could get into Order again, the Enemy might cut us to Pieces. The right Use of the Firelock therefore is not the whole, nay it is the smallest Part, of military Discipline."

    His treatises and manuals were disseminated by order of the President to state militias nationwide.

    mindset > technique > tool

  9. #29
    There's a couple of different kinds of leftists.

    One kind, pretty rare these days, is kind of like an old-school 60's liberal -- maybe we wouldn't agree with them on everything, but they still believe in equal rights, the rule of law, stuff like that. Maybe this Weinstein guy is like that (I don't know enough about him to know for sure), maybe Dershowitz...that's about all I can think of off-hand.

    A second kind, pretty common these days, is hardcore, true-believer Commies. There's no more reasoning with them than there was reasoning with the Mongol Horde. They want the ground you are standing on, and they want your head in that pile over there with all the others. Enough said.

    But there's a third kind these days -- intelligent, good-hearted young people who, quite literally, have not heard The Good Word. In many aspects of life...

    I am not above taking folks of the third kind out to a square range or for a session of casual trap shooting. I figure maybe some of them will start wondering about what else they've been lied to their whole lives.
    Last edited by Gunstore Commando; 11-30-2021 at 10:33 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    In a positive state of mind
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    4,135
    But there's a third kind these days -- intelligent, good-hearted young people who, quite literally, have not heard The Good Word. In many aspects of life...

    These are the naive, ignorant, and unindoctrinated who are all touchy-feely about being a good person, but have no clue what that means, or how easily that attitude can be manipulated to turn them into the second kind -- the hard-core, Godless, Neo-Marxist.

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