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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
    Things to look into? Dean Gotcher, Dialectic and Diaprax. Learn how the modern education system and Church are now structured around emotional, cognitively dissonant arguments while rational, logical discourse is not allowed. It legitimately breaks the brain, but it (I hope) can be fixed.

    I don’t know why I keep pointing at the water trough, almost no one actually walks over and takes a drink. And I’m a novice compared to some others I’ve read here.
    Ok. I'll check that out. Thank you.
    I was born for a storm, and a calm does not suit me. - Andrew Jackson

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir2 View Post
    Doubt I'll get a response to this comment, since you've concluded I'm doubling down, but I'll end my discussion on here with this: I've attempted to explain why I read Gabe's argument the way I did and then offered a refutation, acknowledging particularly in response to your comments that I'm open to being shown how I misunderstood Gabe's point. And if I misunderstood it, then I'll happily change my approach and, if necessary, my argument. But you haven't explained what his argument was and how my response revealed that I misconstrued it, only said (in other words) that I'm trying to manipulate him. I'm not trying to manipulate anyone, only respond to Gabe's argument after describing what I understood his argument to be and then given my response.

    So I guess that's that. Not sure what of your later comment quoting Gabe's was indirectly aimed at me, but all I'll say is that to the extent any of it had me in mind, I'm by no means a Marxist and have tried to explain myself thoroughly and logically. I actually share a lot of your opinion of contemporary Christians but nonetheless endeavor to not be like those who fit your unfortunately accurate description and defend orthodoxy as thoroughly, honestly, and soundly as I know how.
    You seem to be in earnest here, so I’ll simply and kindly ask that you consider your reading comprehension. I’ve already responded to the above, in too many words already. Be well.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
    You seem to be in earnest here, so I’ll simply and kindly ask that you consider your reading comprehension. I’ve already responded to the above, in too many words already. Be well.
    Fair enough. I'll do my best to read Gabe's remarks carefully, my belief at present that I did so at first notwithstanding. It does seem, though, that we have a fundamental difference of starting premise, which means that ultimately we'll end up at loggerheads. (Which I can live with, merely observing.)

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
    In this case, one-sided arguing. Posting lots of words without much point to avoid the concept that maybe, just maybe, humans are fallible and there is more to Christian history than what we read in the New American Standard or King James Version of the Holy Bible.
    Got it. BTW, just read "The Dialectic and Praxis: Diaprax and The End of the Ages." Not much to disagree with there at the risk of being Dialectic. I don't use the KJV. I use the Greek and Hebrew texts. Seen most of the other books mentioned above translating the Septuagint. I know that there is more to Christian history than what we read in the NAS and KJV. But, in the end, what the Man said a long time ago is more true when He said that "you search the scriptures because you think you can find eternal life in them, but they are just talking about Me." That was my point. You can chase everything you want in Christian history but if it doesn't lead you to Him, it isn't worth your time.
    I was born for a storm, and a calm does not suit me. - Andrew Jackson

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    Got it. BTW, just read "The Dialectic and Praxis: Diaprax and The End of the Ages." Not much to disagree with there at the risk of being Dialectic. I don't use the KJV. I use the Greek and Hebrew texts. Seen most of the other books mentioned above translating the Septuagint. I know that there is more to Christian history than what we read in the NAS and KJV. But, in the end, what the Man said a long time ago is more true when He said that "you search the scriptures because you think you can find eternal life in them, but they are just talking about Me." That was my point. You can chase everything you want in Christian history but if it doesn't lead you to Him, it isn't worth your time.
    You’re not wrong! It’s easy to get lost arguing over small details, while losing sight of the goal.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir2 View Post
    Fair enough. I'll do my best to read Gabe's remarks carefully, my belief at present that I did so at first notwithstanding. It does seem, though, that we have a fundamental difference of starting premise, which means that ultimately we'll end up at loggerheads. (Which I can live with, merely observing.)
    Re-reading my post, I believe I crossed the line with the reading comprehension comment and should have rephrased it much more politely. That’s on me, not you. “I don’t think that means what you think it means” works, to butcher a quote from a favorite movie.

    No loggerheads or refusal to listen, here. Just no desire to play in the weeds.

    For things to read, I’ll have to dig for books as not much comes to mind. I’ve always had trouble remembering titles/authors while remembering facts and trivia, unfortunately. Topics to look at: Frankfurt School, critical theory, cultural Marxism, Hegelian Dialectic. Dean Gotcher is very much a zealot but if you can get over the delivery method he gets very deep into the corruption of the church, schools, and what it has done to our minds.

  7. #27
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    Nov 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
    Re-reading my post, I believe I crossed the line with the reading comprehension comment and should have rephrased it much more politely. That’s on me, not you. “I don’t think that means what you think it means” works, to butcher a quote from a favorite movie.

    No loggerheads or refusal to listen, here. Just no desire to play in the weeds.

    For things to read, I’ll have to dig for books as not much comes to mind. I’ve always had trouble remembering titles/authors while remembering facts and trivia, unfortunately. Topics to look at: Frankfurt School, critical theory, cultural Marxism, Hegelian Dialectic. Dean Gotcher is very much a zealot but if you can get over the delivery method he gets very deep into the corruption of the church, schools, and what it has done to our minds.
    Hey, no hard feelings. I appreciate it, and I can certainly accept that I may have simply misread things to begin with; I've done it before and may have done it this time. I'll reread all this, when I have more time, with the kernel of your remarks in mind.

    Noted on content to read. Interesting you should mention the bolded subjects—those have been interests of mine for some time, and I'm somewhat conversant on each, though not as much as I'd like. Based on that, I'm gathering that we also see much of the same issues playing into how people in general think and especially what that has done to how Christians "reason"—like you, I'm not a big fan. Anyhow, I'll go find some reading for my spare time.

  8. #28
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    Curious thread. I generally avoid any discussion regarding religion/God/personal beliefs, but here goes. I am no longer a member of any church, having "left" in my twenties. I don't pray for anything and really haven't ever either. I've been thankful for ___, but never prayed for anything. One can believe in God but not bother with religious dogma. I have Jewish friends who are cool guys and don't think they are going to hell for eating a ham sandwich, just like I never thought I was committing some type of sin for having steak on Fridays while growing up. Religion/faith is fine, just keep it to yourself and do not force it on others.

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