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  1. #1
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    Sep 2009
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    Question Christian Resistance to Tyranny

    Much has been written on this topic by men much wiser than me. But as I watch the world appear to unravel around me I canít help but return to some of these fundamental questions in search of new insight:

    For those of us raised on Christian doctrine we are taught that God has established the civil magistrate and given him authority (although limited/constrained). When has that civil magistrate so exceeded the constraints established by God as to no longer be legitimate and therefore no longer worthy to be obeyed?

    All governments in existence today were established by conquest and armed conflict (this is without exception to the best of my knowledge - some may argue that the democratic process is a peaceful alternative but I think itís safe to say that, at its best, democracy is simply the tyranny of the majority and at its worst is a complete illusion and tool of despots and tyrants). At what point is it morally justified for Godís people to engage in conquest and armed conflict for the purpose of restoring or establishing just government in place of a tyrannical one?

    I know these are dangerous questions and they have been largely philosophical and abstract in the past. However, they seem to be becoming increasingly relevant as the leaders who claim legitimacy use their offices to destroy human liberty and erode natural rights. Therefore, I believe it to be worth the risk to ponder these questions more openly in the hope that the answers may yet provide a foundation for peaceful restraint of authoritarian rule and help to avoid both slavery and violence.

  2. #2
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    The NPCs/sheeple who preach such doctrines in relation to US politics don't like it when I'm part of the discussion.

    The "ruler" of the USA is the Constitution.

    Anyone subverting it is a traitor and in terms of this doctrine is the one sinning, and fighting such commies would be acting as this passage says you should act.
    "Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot

  3. #3
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    As is typical, the answer is given before the need for the question to be asked.

    https://youtu.be/4uE-tqe0xsQ

  4. #4
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    Default The Answer Is Given.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Taylor View Post
    As is typical, the answer is given before the need for the question to be asked.

    https://youtu.be/4uE-tqe0xsQ
    Spot on with the above........Watch and listen the entirety.Share it.

    This " republic " has morphed into bloated " Empire " complete with 24 hour bread and circuses and a " go along to get along mentality ". Do I still take solace in the writings of the old and new covenant?...Yes,yes I do.

    I'm a struggling/in training, man at arms and apprentice pirate.The question of obedience or disobedience.....well that train has left the station, missed the first sharp turn, derailed and went over a cliff.

    Remember the opposition understands very well that......Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun
    Many are able, few are willing .

    Dirty is exactly why you are here.

    NV28

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  5. #5
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    Aug 2008
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    Well, I don't recall if I mentioned it but for almost a year I've been looking for another church after my pastor died approximately two years ago.
    I think I found one. Small church, non-denominational Christian and this morning the preacher referred to Biden as a traitor to the country and God for violating his oath of office.
    I can't recall details but he was a Colonel or Lt.Col in either the 101st or 82nd Airborne.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2009
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    Christians should not limit their resistance to christian methods. Resist at every level at every opportunity.
    Paul

    The greatest threat to America is the ďSleeping GiantĒ not waking up,

  7. #7
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    Aug 2009
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    Correct. The Constitution is the established authority. People I know, even family, don’t like it when I’m part of the conversation either. They don’t talk to me any more.
    Missionary Spencer Smith spoke about this subject recently, more or less making a mockery of these people, asking how the strict Romans 13 people now felt about the Christians in Afghanistan having to live under the taliban.
    I work around a guy who is hard-line Church of Christ and strict Romans 13 (I don’t know if they’re all that way). Apparently his church teaches that one should never disobey. Without having to type out the entire conversation, I just told him that if that was the case, our forefathers had to have been living in sin by rebelling against the king of England, therefore we needed to sign the deed for this little piece of property called America back over to England. He didn’t have much of a reply for that.
    Psalm 139:21,22
    Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
    I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.


    The truth is hatred to those who hate truth.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by res308 View Post
    Correct. The Constitution is the established authority. People I know, even family, don’t like it when I’m part of the conversation either. They don’t talk to me any more.
    Missionary Spencer Smith spoke about this subject recently, more or less making a mockery of these people, asking how the strict Romans 13 people now felt about the Christians in Afghanistan having to live under the taliban.
    I work around a guy who is hard-line Church of Christ and strict Romans 13 (I don’t know if they’re all that way). Apparently his church teaches that one should never disobey. Without having to type out the entire conversation, I just told him that if that was the case, our forefathers had to have been living in sin by rebelling against the king of England, therefore we needed to sign the deed for this little piece of property called America back over to England. He didn’t have much of a reply for that.
    I’m in the same boat, Christians don’t like talking to me about Romans 13 and typically respond emotionally. Like so many other cognitive dissonance occurrences they’re unable to discuss the topic rationally.
    I stumbled on a site called Yashanet a decade or so ago when studying this. http://www.yashanet.com/studies/romstudy/text13.htm
    Short version is Romans 13 has to do with the synagogue leadership of the time, and makes no sense if you put it in context of civil government vs. all of the Christians disobeying government orders. In context of scripture, even just the few chapters immediately before and after, it becomes much more obvious.

    I also bring in what Benjamin said, that the ruler of this country is the Constitution and we the people; we don’t have a king or emperor so even if they read Romans 13 with that interpretation it has no bearing on the USA. Any halfway intelligent biblical scholar has no excuse for the hardline mainstream Romans 13 stance.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Liu View Post
    The NPCs/sheeple who preach such doctrines in relation to US politics don't like it when I'm part of the discussion.

    The "ruler" of the USA is the Constitution.

    Anyone subverting it is a traitor and in terms of this doctrine is the one sinning, and fighting such commies would be acting as this passage says you should act.
    That IS the crux of the issue in the USA. Our Constitution IS our ruler, our supreme law of the land, the earthly authority to which we are all commanded to obey and be subject to; NOT any elected representative, politician, governor, or even the President himself. I too bring this up every time this topic comes up in the Christian groups I’m a part of, and just like you’ve experienced, most are quite resistant to the idea, and will argue tooth and nail against it. It’s quite frustrating.
    - I am not in danger. I AM the danger.

    - Keep your rifle by your side.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MesserMan View Post
    That IS the crux of the issue in the USA. Our Constitution IS our ruler, our supreme law of the land, the earthly authority to which we are all commanded to obey and be subject to; NOT any elected representative, politician, governor, or even the President himself. I too bring this up every time this topic comes up in the Christian groups I’m a part of, and just like you’ve experienced, most are quite resistant to the idea, and will argue tooth and nail against it. It’s quite frustrating.
    Truman said the Constitution is meant to serve the People. The People aren't meant to serve the Constitution.
    In the time between 1865 and 1965 Blacks in the South were subject to being killed by White mobs. Lynching if you will.
    Blacks could not serve on juries or vote in many cases. So the White men were arrested and tried for their crimes, often admitting guilt,
    only to be found not guilty by an all White jury. The Constitution says this is a State issue but Southern states were not going to stop Lynching.
    So the Federal Government passed an un-Constitutional Civil Rights Act. Blindly following the Constitution or any person or law is not the
    way to liberty and happiness.

    This really sucks because we all know that evil men will take advantage of this to try to take away our guns or to impose un-Constitutional vaccine mandates.
    But it doesn't change the fundamental truth of the statement.

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