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  1. #1
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    Default PLAYING AROUND WITH THE NEW OLD STUFF

    Lets face it, as a platform Glock has been a platform for a long, long fuckin time. It is both fortunate and unfortunate that their patents are running out which means that much like the AR, other companies are trying to tap into the complete pistol market in some shape or form, Zev with their OZ9 which is the bastard love child of the menage a troit between Glock, P320, and 2011 designs, P80 and their contracted serialized forms, like Grey Ghost, PSA's Dagger, which was unfortunately extremely well marketed and so poorly received that they haven't released any since, and some more under the radar things, like the ZRO Delta Modulus, and RIA's STK100, the ladder two, being aluminum framed pistols.

    If you know us well enough and have been around long enough, you know we have no problem sitting on the market to see what happens, but when something cool comes up, especially something that's been flying under the radar, we wanna take a look at it to see what advantages if any, it poses to us. Typically, companies will make bold claims, normally dealing with compatibility, and today is no different. So, when we actually get our hands on something cool, its my job to see what we can do to make it better than the factory drop.

    For now these are just first impressions, when I get out to actually shoot these, I should have more relevant info. Its no shock that Glocks are still hard to get one's hands on, but they are slowly trickling back onto shelves. Not everyone wants to wait and we understand that so we got our hands on a couple pistols that should fill the Glock gap, not to be confused with Gaston's petty potato of a round. The ZRO Modulus, has a lot of promise, its an aluminum framed Glock, that is actually modular (with a gen 5 17 barrel on hand). The dust cover, grip base, front strap and back strap are all interchangeable to fit shooter needs. You can swap front straps if you do or dont want finger grooves, back straps, for grip size and beaver tails, bases to go from 19 to 17 length or a big fuck off magwell for the competition guys, and lastly you can swap dust covers to accommodate full lengths for 19, 17 or 34. The price is steep, but the modularity pays off for those who want it. The overall frame feels good, in the hand but my personal preference requires an aggressive texture, and this frame is lacking in that department. other than that, its one of the most amazing adult Lego sets, i've ever had the pleasure of getting my hands on. So what do i think of it? its a bit of a loaded question, the brand has been around a bit, but in particular, I am unfamiliar with their products, so i know nothing of their machining practices. To that note, I would say their slide looks good on the outside, but internal machining leaves me wanting more. There's a greatly unpleasant grittiness to the entire action on its own, so i did my thing and swapped the trigger system out for ours, which was a good call right off the bat, because the trigger unit was P80 branded parts, which are all over the place in regards to tolerance. The trigger pull got better but it was still gritty, so I pulled apart the slide, more P80 internals. Replaced them, again, better but still gritty. Took their slide off put one of our 47 slides on. No more grit, trigger got even better. So what does this mean? It means the internal machining of the slide, in particular the safety plunger channel and rails, are extremely rough, but thats ok, because all in all, it looks better with more of our name on it anyway, and aside from the magwell, mag release, and frame pins, the pistol is compatible with all of ours and OEM parts. Now onto the next question, how doe it shoot? No fucking clue, but weather permitting i'll be able to tell you tomorrow.

    Next up is the RIA STK100. Like many, and i'm really no different, i've had mixed experiences with RIA. The first pistol I ever bought was an RIA, and it ran like absolute dog shit, it wouldn't even load ball ammo. One of my best friends has one and it runs fine, yet we have a mutual friend that had one that ran just fine, but wouldn't group, because the chamber was oversized by about .020", and then again my newest pistol is a double stack 10mm that runs like a scalded dog. We also know that with the current market, people are going to buy what they can get their hands on and there's no way around that, so more R&D time. I wont lie, this pistol had me scratching my head a bit until i looked closer at the parts. Again, this was another factory releases pistol running P80 internals, and right out of the box, its doesn't feel bad, but there's always room to improve. so first things first i swap out the P80 trigger unit and ZEV Fulcrum knockoff, then went ahead and put one of our 317 slides on it. As far as feel goes, not gonna lie, i'm kinda in love with it. the frame is very reminiscent of a CZ75 in regards to shape, and the trigger feels amazing. The downside however, is it took some fuckery to get there. Remeber what i said about RIA? ya it still holds true. When i first replaced the trigger i replaced the entire unit, it didn't work, but it did do something very interesting, it became a SIRT pistol. The connector would engage and disengage, but the cruciform wouldn't disengage from the striker so i could pull the trigger, get an audible and tangible click, reset and repeat. The reason as we looked closer at the P80 bar that came with it is, that they had cut back and re-cut the angle into the cruciform. So what does that mean for everyone else? I can't really say, but it will be one of two things depending on whether or not this particular pistol has a tolerance issue, or the entire line does, either way, its really not enough to turn me off of it. So if it is this particular gun, or even a couple here and there, keep the bar and change out the trigger shoe only, if you want our trigger. If we got the limited edition fuck up, then get the trigger and bar, but i would hedge my bet and stick with just the shoe. The next issue is something i hope to be able to alleviate in short order, the barrel. Due to locking block restraints, i'll get into why in a bit, RIA did some creative modifications to the standard Glock barrel lugs, and went a bit extreme with the chamfering on the edges. So what does this mean? It means that for now you have to stick with there barrel, but it is something that we should be able to modify our barrels to accommodate, should someone have one of these frames. Other than that, same as the ZRO Delta frame in terms of parts compatibility.

    between the ZRO Delta and RIA frames, both offer a couple major advantages over the standard glock frame. The first being the obvious, the aluminum frame. The largest benefit of this frame is the overall weight. The weight alone will drastically reduce recoil, which will help to decrease the time getting back on target, aside from that the obvious durability benefit that comes with a metal frame over a polymer. Don't get me wrong, a polymer pistol frame will last, we know that, but the aluminum frame has the physical ability to outlast the polymer.

    the next huge benefit, is one shared with other aftermarket frames, the rail length. a typical glock rear rail is about 0.388" long, and a typical front rail is about 0.398" long. The ZRO Delta has a 1.050" rear rail section and a 1.355" front. The RIA outdoes them both with a 1.119" rear and 1.9" front. ok, so what, right? the increased rail section also helps reduce recoil making for a flatter shooting pistol by forcing the into a straighter trajectory moving backwards and forwards again. on a standard glock frame rail, the slide wants to move in every direction it can while traveling rearward against the recoil units spring tension and then forward again, while also jarring against the next round in the mag. its not something that is typically felt, but its all relative in the motion of the slide cycle. by increasing the rail lengths, you have eliminated the excess sided to side and up and down motion of the slide creating a softer, smoother recoil impulse.

    RIA STK100: left -- ZRO Delta Modulus: right
    KIMG0207~2.jpgKIMG0209.jpgKIMG0210.jpgKIMG0208.jpg

    Do NOT call me an armorer
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of all worlds
    People have asked me if I consider myself a good or bad person. The truth of it is, I don't know or care. I have been called both. I like to think I have saved more lives than I have ended. Either way, I can still sleep at night.
    SEMPER FI

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    I was able to handle a RIA. It really felt
    good. The spilt lower was interesting, but
    well done. I don't think my buddy has shot
    it yet, but I'm interested in how that goes.

    Thanks for the detailed write up.
    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Alan Temby
    "Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth"- Oscar Wilde.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2018
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    Thanks for the write-up, curious to see how these lowers run.


    Quote Originally Posted by ShopMonkey View Post
    It means the internal machining of the slide, in particular the safety plunger channel and rails, are extremely rough, but thats ok, because all in all, it looks better with more of our name on it anyway, and aside from the magwell, mag release, and frame pins, the pistol is compatible with all of ours and OEM parts.

    Interesting (and unfortunate) how ZRO skimped on the internal machining. How rough was it? Average production level or basement DIY bubba?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar01 View Post
    Thanks for the write-up, curious to see how these lowers run. Interesting (and unfortunate) how ZRO skimped on the internal machining. How rough was it? Average production level or basement DIY bubba?
    it looks beautiful externally, but using their slide, even with as many of our components as i can load up in it, their slide on their frame feels like i just dug it up out of the sand. our slide being swapped onto the frame makes all the difference in the world and is incredibly pleasant to shoot.

    Do NOT call me an armorer
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of all worlds
    People have asked me if I consider myself a good or bad person. The truth of it is, I don't know or care. I have been called both. I like to think I have saved more lives than I have ended. Either way, I can still sleep at night.
    SEMPER FI

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    629
    I'm just shaking my head. Everybody is trying to sell their clone-of-Glock. Which can only be done by sacrificing quality to get low cost (always popular with Americans who would rather have two shoddy guns than one good gun), or cost to get high quality (less popular...but my Kimber Evo has a pretty decent trigger).

    Either way, I think the smart move is to pursue the not-a-Glock path. Go where the competition isn't. Forget striker-fired pistols...unless you have something really exotic. A chassis-based (meaning you save money on frame machining) 1911-ish pistol might sell well. If you can crack the reliability issue, electronic triggers would be a world-beater. But don't try to sell your Glock knockoff, it just won't play that well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike OTDP View Post
    I'm just shaking my head. Everybody is trying to sell their clone-of-Glock. Which can only be done by sacrificing quality to get low cost (always popular with Americans who would rather have two shoddy guns than one good gun), or cost to get high quality (less popular...but my Kimber Evo has a pretty decent trigger).

    Either way, I think the smart move is to pursue the not-a-Glock path. Go where the competition isn't. Forget striker-fired pistols...unless you have something really exotic. A chassis-based (meaning you save money on frame machining) 1911-ish pistol might sell well. If you can crack the reliability issue, electronic triggers would be a world-beater. But don't try to sell your Glock knockoff, it just won't play that well.
    sadly enough, the ZRO dleta as a complete pistol retails around 900. that being said you couldnt pay me to take a kimber. the aluminum frame on its own is great, and shoots great, but this being their first venture outside of AR's, also being aluminum, they have some work to do on the slide.

    Do NOT call me an armorer
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of all worlds
    People have asked me if I consider myself a good or bad person. The truth of it is, I don't know or care. I have been called both. I like to think I have saved more lives than I have ended. Either way, I can still sleep at night.
    SEMPER FI

  7. #7
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    Mar 2014
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    Excellent, through write up, thank you.

  8. #8
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    Default range report

    shot em both, and both shot phenomenally. due to the added weight of the frame, the pistols both remain much more level during rapid fire. both pistols shot a tight enough group that i had to start getting sloppy in order to check my group and by the end of it, had a golf ball sized hole with 2 or 3 outliers. as far as grip comfort goes, i was pleased with both, but the contours of the RIA were something else entirely, changing the overall recoil impulse for the better, even though its beefier. neither pistol presented any hiccups with mags between oem and magpul and neither pistol presented any feed issues with our slides on the frames. overall i'd be satisfied owning either of them as an alternative to the oem frame. as far as the ZRO and RIA slides go, i didn't shoot either of them, theyre not ours, and it wasnt the point of the experiment. the point was to test available market alternatives with our products.

    i will say that i'm actually much happier with the RIA and would be more so if they make a 19 version, especially at the price point of 600 msrp, but the ZRO offers something the RIA doesn't complete modularity between the 19, 17 and 34 models. if your ok with dropping 900 for a frame, because while the slide looks good, i would dump it on ebay first chance i got, and put that money towards a replacement.

    Do NOT call me an armorer
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of all worlds
    People have asked me if I consider myself a good or bad person. The truth of it is, I don't know or care. I have been called both. I like to think I have saved more lives than I have ended. Either way, I can still sleep at night.
    SEMPER FI

  9. #9
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    Mine in bold

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike OTDP View Post
    I'm just shaking my head. Everybody is trying to sell their clone-of-Glock. Which can only be done by sacrificing quality to get low cost (always popular with Americans who would rather have two shoddy guns than one good gun), or cost to get high quality (less popular...but my Kimber Evo has a pretty decent trigger).

    Well...maybe, but you could say the same about all the 1911 market, and the Ar15 market. Eventually a design becomes timeless and defines a genre...witness the Xerox copy or the Kleenex. The Glock and the AR15 are those, and whether you like it or not, properly arranged they can do amazing things. You cannot compare a Suarez Glock to a P80...or a Noveske AR to one from Billy Boogerhook's Custom Blasters.

    Either way, I think the smart move is to pursue the not-a-Glock path. Go where the competition isn't. Forget striker-fired pistols...unless you have something really exotic. A chassis-based (meaning you save money on frame machining) 1911-ish pistol might sell well. If you can crack the reliability issue, electronic triggers would be a world-beater. But don't try to sell your Glock knockoff, it just won't play that well.

    Know what will sell...Glock type weapons and M4 type weapons. YOU may love the 1911-ish pistol...but nobody else will. I recall years ago when we were hot on the SIG 556R...nobody cared even though it is exceedingly better than any AK ever made. Everybody thinks they know what they want...and that is all well and good...but some of us know WHAT THEY WILL SPEND MONEY ON...and that is a different animal completely.

    If I was abandoning the Glock, I would look at the ONLY pistol that IMNSHO offers things that no striker fired weapon ever will...the SIG P-220, 226, 229 series of handguns. But like your space age 1911...everyone will stroke themselves while reading about it...but never spend the coin to have one.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #10
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    Over the last decade or two, RIA has put out a few cool innovations. They are still struggling to get their QC up but they are making strides. They are way better than they used to be but they are selling to the so called "gun community" and that means trying to pry money out of cheap sons of bitches. Michael Bane speaks and writes highly of them which brings a little hope but most everything of theirs I personally handled was only ok, not great. The 22TCM round is a cool innovation and they make some neat CZ75ish pistols. They are making 9mm revolvers now too which is kind of cool
    I'm not surprised they are jumping into the aluminum Glock copy pool and they stand as good a chance as any of coming through with a good one.

    Gabe's point re people's perception of what they want vs their actual spending patterns is beyond debate. I don't remember the name that eggheads give it but it's a known psychological effect. I learned about it in a sales training session years ago. It happens in marketing and in polling. People say one thing, really believing that they believe it, but they act differently. "I don't like negative political advertising" is something voters say, but mud slinging continues because voters respond to it. A new gun comes out, the peanut gallery says "I'll buy one if they make it in 10mm" but we all know that's just not true.

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