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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisNobody View Post
    I am totally ok with the “bag of chips” drill; however, there will be no “V”(ickers) drill - that would require consuming at least one bag of Doritos first and then shooting with sticky orange fingers. I have more self respect than that.

    That said, I love the idea of looking for some of these alternative drills. I bet we can find some more if we go back to the “early works” (McGivern for example). He had a number of points regarding alternative carry and drawing.
    And no shovels either.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

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    Pistol Groundfighting, Texas

  2. #42
    I'm quite ignorant of revolvers so be gentle.... What do folks think about the polymer frame small revolver made by Ruger ?? I've only seen a couple at gun stores and never even handled them.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    6,456
    I wanted to like it but didn't.

    Some things are a good idea but hampered by meh execution.

    Don't get me wrong, they work and will do the job but...I bought another S&W instead.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Texas

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona's Desert
    Posts
    426
    Quote Originally Posted by mike28w View Post
    I'm quite ignorant of revolvers so be gentle.... What do folks think about the polymer frame small revolver made by Ruger ?? I've only seen a couple at gun stores and never even handled them.
    The Ruger: 13.5 oz.
    S&W 442: 14.7 oz.

    MSRP for both are about the same, but I think the consensus is that the Smith & Wesson is by far a better weapon.

  5. #45
    I promise I'm not trying to be a dick....but my favorite small frame revolver is a Sig P290rs.

    Your carnage may vary.

    That is why there are different flavors of ice cream....
    Wait for the Lord. Behave yourself manfully, and be of good courage.
    Do not be faithless, but stay in your place and do not turn back.
    Thomas Kempis

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    TEXAS THIRD COAST
    Posts
    4,715
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Salyards View Post
    I promise I'm not trying to be a dick....but my favorite small frame revolver is a Sig P290rs.

    Your carnage may vary.

    That is why there are different flavors of ice cream....
    Youíre missing the point Jake. I love the P290RS, PM9,etc; probably more than the next guy. The small frame short barrel revolver can do things close in the small autos canít.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Jon Payne
    Ambassador, Suarez Group of Companies
    Suarez International Law Enforcement Instructor
    Texas LTC Instructor

    The Two Most Dangerous Places in Today's World:
    1.) A Gun Free Zone
    2.) Your Comfort Zone

    I choose to live a peaceful life. It's not hard to change my mind.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    47,743
    I have a 290 as well as a few J Frames. During my recent venture past the Iron Curtain...the 290 stayed home.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I have a 290 as well as a few J Frames. During my recent venture past the Iron Curtain...the 290 stayed home.
    What made you choose the j-frame over the others? That’s the wisdom in which I’m interested?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Payne View Post
    You’re missing the point Jake. I love the P290RS, PM9,etc; probably more than the next guy. The small frame short barrel revolver can do things close in the small autos can’t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Actually, I do get it. Brass retention, muzzle contact functionality, can be fired inside a pocket more than once. All very valid considerations.

    Everything is a trade off, no free lunch and all.

    Right tool for the right job.

    I certainly don't think you're wrong, I just went another way with it.
    Last edited by Jake Salyards; 06-21-2021 at 11:29 AM.
    Wait for the Lord. Behave yourself manfully, and be of good courage.
    Do not be faithless, but stay in your place and do not turn back.
    Thomas Kempis

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    47,743
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    What made you choose the j-frame over the others? That’s the wisdom in which I’m interested?

    While some LE in CA might still see me as a "brother", I know not all of the new breed would...and specially in CA.

    CA is an NPE. In an NPE I take care of me and mine...period. This is the one place where engaging those who would be engaged anywhere else in the USA will be over ridden by a "break contact and continue mission" protocol. Yes...I will feel bad for the victims I didn't save but not knowing for certain how my intervention would be seen (like I would expect in AZ, TX, FL, etc.), I will elect to change my tactics.

    In CA even LE are prevented from carrying weapons in many venues. In my opinion, any semi auto should be holstered. The 290 is a class by itself owing to the trigger mechanism...but given that one moment the weapon might be in a sock...inside your shoe...in your underwear right by your balls...or in the traditional holsterless appendix carry (aka Colombian Carry), the J Frame wins.

    Why is simple. In my casual testing at home, a loosely carried semi auto will experience magazine button pressure at some point, giving you an unexpected detached magazine...ie a one shot weapon. I saw this in the Shield Maiden's purse as well as in the various clandestine carry methods sometimes required with situational carry (a nice way of saying extra-legal situations).

    The J-frame exhibited none of those things and was always ready to go. The cylinder release requires a particular movement to operate that was never replicated in these modes of carry. If I were designing the 290, I would eschew the American magazine release and give it the European release to avoid these issues.

    Additional points. In an NPE environment, one often waits until the last possible moment to engage as there is very little overt proactive thinking. That means that in your face bad breath combat is likely...even if not desired. Sucker punching someone with a J-frame, coupled with a trigger press is simply not possible with anything other than a revolver. Finally is the issue of forensics. I am not suggesting absconding after an event as such action is highly unlikely in the USA...but in some situations...say in Latin America for example, , a change in jurisdictions before any thing else is done allows strategizing the next steps. Not as easy to do if you are in the system (class 3 dealers, US mil, LE personnel, etc.) and that brass tells the tale. Legend has it that some OCONUS types use very worn barrels in the J Frames - virtually no rifling - well used brass from the shooting range, and frangible bullets...for similar operational reasons.

    Next is carryability...this has to do with how the weight of the piece is distributed along its mass. Very individual but a G19 is more carryable than a 26 for example. The 290 seems to have greater mass and slightly heavier than the 642. And even the Seecamp which was marginally lighter than the 642 was not as easy to carry in the way I am suggesting. Something about the size and mass of the Airweight that makes it easy to move around in the manner that I discussed. YMMV

    Finally the issue of capacity comes up. The 290 holds an extra round. Okie dokie...so what. These events...the type the J frame was intended for...why we are looking at it...are not detailed by volume of fire or speed loads. They are characterized by the need for the weapon to be there in the first place, by close range ambush shooting, and by high intensity and short duration fights.

    Long response I suppose but this has been on my mind for a while.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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