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Thread: 32 acp ammo?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Payne View Post
    Larry Seecamp himself stated shooting solid FMJ in a LWS32 wasnít a good idea. That solid rounds, even if they fit in the magazine, would raise pressures in the pistol. Iím no gunsmith nor engineer, but if the designer leaves me a note not to do it...


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    I don't know what ammo Larry Seecamp might be talking about and don't know the man himself, but this sounds like another example to me of how just because someone owns/runs a gun manufacturing company, does not mean they know what they're talking about with ammo or other subjects.
    Maybe he found some particular type of FMJ that runs at higher pressure, or maybe he's talking about someone's handloads being seated shorter without adjusting the powder charge. Generally though, FMJ is not solid, and has the same or very similar jacket thickness and material and resulting starting resistance in the barrel as common hollow points. Short explanation for that is FMJ commercial ammo is loaded to the same pressure specs as hollow points, and if it fits in the magazine without modifying the ammo, there's no reason to expect pressure to be higher.

    Gabe has mentioned how business in the gun industry is full of snakes and frauds; I'm not a businessman but I am an engineer and a gunsmith, and see evidence of the same phenomenon on the technical side in the amount of garbage information put out by a lot of supposedly knowledgeable and trustworthy gun people. I don't know if that's the case here, maybe something has gotten lost in translation, but it makes me wonder.
    Last edited by Yondering; 05-21-2021 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #22
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    I would agree with Yondering's post above.
    Jumping back to the +p's for a minute. I would be very cautious to use Buffalo Bore or any hot round in the Beretta Tomcat as well. I believe Beretta warns against +p in it.
    The Tomcat is a sound reliable design BUT it is delicate. Delicate in the sense that too much hot ammo & it will crack the slide or worse. Beretta did beef up the slides but they are not all day shooters. Run a box through it once in awhile for function & familiarity & put it back to it's BUG purpose.
    Rom 13:4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil,
    be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister,
    an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

  3. #23
    Maybe Seecamp was worried that since FMJ ammo is generally cheaper , that quality control is more relaxed and therefor it could be more likely to get an overcharged round ?? ( I'm trying hard to come up with an explanation, obviously...) I could imagine that when the gun was first designed that ,by only recommending high end defensive ammo , that quality control would be tighter ?????

    Initially , it appears that Mr. Seecamp recommended only Silvertips. This may have simply been a way to avoid dealing with buyers complaining about problems when they shoot cheap stuff. This has always been a high end little mouse gun !! " Carried a lot and shot a little" ??

    I don't like this explanation much....but I'm trying to see it from a manufacturer's point of view.

    I agree and understand the argument with avoiding +P.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike28w View Post
    Maybe Seecamp was worried that since FMJ ammo is generally cheaper , that quality control is more relaxed and therefor it could be more likely to get an overcharged round ?? ( I'm trying hard to come up with an explanation, obviously...) I could imagine that when the gun was first designed that ,by only recommending high end defensive ammo , that quality control would be tighter ?????

    Initially , it appears that Mr. Seecamp recommended only Silvertips. This may have simply been a way to avoid dealing with buyers complaining about problems when they shoot cheap stuff. This has always been a high end little mouse gun !! " Carried a lot and shot a little" ??

    I don't like this explanation much....but I'm trying to see it from a manufacturer's point of view.

    I agree and understand the argument with avoiding +P.
    The following from Mr. S on the Seecamp Forum....

    Forum...
    "As for blowback semi autos of the LWS.32 type, the general rule is the heavier the slide the faster the bullet.

    If we totally eliminate friction, the slide speed and bullet speed will be in direct relation to their respective weights.

    To compensate for the light slide on our pistols we put in the chamber ring to retard slide movement. By slowing the slide, we increase bullet speed.

    It's good for the gun and it's good for ballistics."

    Somewhere else (on the forum?) I recall a statement about the chamber ďringĒ used for delaying the slide will also cause a slight and acceptable compression of hp bullets. FMJs do not compress, leading to an alteration of all of the related math/physics, and resulting in elevated pressure and possible damage/injury.
    Those with better memories, ballistics backgrounds, or search abilities may be able to add to this?

    geezerjohn

  5. #25
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    Disregard any advice from those of us that have been shooting this pistol for several years and spent time with the current Whalley Precision/Seecamp GM on what performs best out of the LWS32. Shoot whatever you want out of it...
    Jon Payne
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    The Two Most Dangerous Places in Today's World:
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    I choose to live a peaceful life. It's not hard to change my mind.

  6. #26
    Somewhere else (on the forum?) I recall a statement about the chamber “ring” used for delaying the slide will also cause a slight and acceptable compression of hp bullets. FMJs do not compress, leading to an alteration of all of the related math/physics, and resulting in elevated pressure and possible damage/injury.
    Those with better memories, ballistics backgrounds, or search abilities may be able to add to this?

    geezerjohn[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for that explanation...that makes it easier for me to accept , than just a blind "because I said so" recommendation ! That didn't work when I was a teenager and it still doesn't.

    I don't believe there is anything immoral or unethical about asking for a reason when you don't understand something...jmo

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Payne View Post
    Disregard any advice from those of us that have been shooting this pistol for several years and spent time with the current Whalley Precision/Seecamp GM on what performs best out of the LWS32. Shoot whatever you want out of it...

    The problem now is that people are having problems finding the magic loads and bullets that are blessed By Seacamp et al. I do not have a dog in the fight since I do not own a seacamp pistol.
    One reason on my part for not owning a seacamp .32 is that it is restricted to what it is blessed by seacamp to fire.
    Some what was attributed to Mr Seacamp does not make sense, but a man has to know his limitations and I do not feel confident enough to discount what Seacamp et al is claiming.
    Easy button for me, use another gun.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Payne View Post
    I cracked a slide on a Milford LWS32 using the Buffalo Bore hard cast rounds. Buyer beware. Mine functions perfectly with Speer Gold Dots (Doubt they would ever expand) and there's no reason to shoot boxes of ammo through a Seecamp during a range session. Shoot enough to ensure proper function, clean, carry, and change out your carry ammo based on your environment etc.
    Bummer. Iíve got a few boxes of the stuff, and itís what Iím currently carrying in my Seecamp. I put 40 rounds of it through the gun to test it for reliability, then cleaned and lubed it per Seecampís instructions. It was flawless.

    If I never shoot any of it again, outside of a real-world defensive gun use, do you think Iíd be safe continuing to carry the 6+1 rounds in the gun? I doubt only 7 more rounds would break the gun, but it would really suck to have that happen during a fight.

    How many rounds of the Buffalo Bore stuff did it take before your slide cracked?
    - I am not in danger. I AM the danger.

    - Keep your rifle by your side.

  9. #29
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    "Forum...
    "As for blowback semi autos of the LWS.32 type, the general rule is the heavier the slide the faster the bullet."

    What?

    -- ML

  10. #30
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    Gun forums are like the counter at your local gun shop. Lots of free advice. The codger dispensing wisdom may or may not have decades of experience and wisdom to draw from. He might be a retired engineer, master machinist, retired paratrooper, old time cop or none of those.

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