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  1. #1
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    Default COLT 9MM DOE SMG

    Colt-m603.jpg

    We brought back the Commando, and added several ancillary models such as the Hyena, and now the Panama Special. Continuing with our examination of the AR-15 series I want to examine and discuss the Colt SMG...notably the DOE version. I used one of these when I attended Phil Singleton's High Risk Warrant Service School back in the early 1990s. I was the one non-MP5 guy in class. I also had a chance to use a Colt SMG in another class a few years later. There were a few teams that ran them rather than the ubiquitous MP5 of the era. This was mostly due to already having them in the armory, buying them second hand, or a decided choice to go with platform familiarity if they already had the M16 system.

    My impression of it was favorable, if out of reach for the normal American subject of the era. But perhaps, it is something worth bringing back.

    What I liked, how I would do it, and why.

    It was far lighter and compact than the MP5 I was accustomed to. The controls were those of the AR15 and easy to operate for someone schooled on it. A bit easier to run than the Mp5...IMHO, and I ran the MP5 very well. The weapon I sued was well worn and had been sitting in an armory worn out as it was, for years. One of the magazines it came with was also worn and would not stay in place...but the others were perfect.

    Today, I would build it on either an SBA3 braced lower, or an even more compact, albeit more costly Maxim PDW braced lower. I would set it up with ambi safeties and a Geisselle trigger..or its equivalent. Now here is the biggest contraversy which we will leave for last...I would build it to use the Colt SMG magazine and NOT the Glock magazine. Now close your mouth and keep reading.

    The upper would include the 9mm case deflector, be a flat top, and run a super short M-lok rail. Barrel would be the shortest available..likely between 5-7 inches. No shorter because you need to put that hand somewhere. The flash hider may go away as a 9mm has none...maybe add a QD muzzle unit for a can.

    Of course sights and some sort of red dot system...an RMR would be perfect for such a mini-weapon. With a Maxim Collapsible brace and a sub 7" barrel, this would fit in most laptop bags.

    Now...the reason you skimmed over and ignored everything up to this point...the magazines.

    The Glock magazine is popular, and there is an argument to using them. But my perspective is this. I ran a high end, high dollar, best-of-the-best famous maker 9mm AR a couple of years ago designed to use the Glock happy sticks. I was not happy with the reliability. My UZI with steel mags from the 1950s ran better than this one. I do not believe that the Glock mags are intended for the rough use on an SMG weapon. In a pistol, the use is far less harsh on the magazines and thus we never hear of issues. Used in an SMG...the way SMGs are used properly, the magazines will get beaten up. The feed angle is also optimized for a pistol and not for an SMG, giving rise to the strange rearward angle of a Glock magazine in any long gun.

    The Colt 32 round SMG magazine is a better choice IMHO , and what I would use to build this weapon. They are readily available...well...were readily available before the current panic (justified as it may be). Ammunition Storage Components and Duramag, both make them at very affordable prices, and for range drills, even Promag makes sacrificial magazines. And they can be found in surplus form from time to time.

    There you have it. Perhaps, it will be a "Next Project" from the guys at The SI Q-Branch.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    Fascinating. I always find it interesting to see how they had to adapt the current technology of the time and likely bureaucratic restraints of forcing their existing hardware into a needed roll.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Gabe,

    I am not really current on my 9mm SMG mags. Does the Colt mag have the same profile and mag catch as the CProducts mag?

    Years ago I picked up and A1 Colt Commando 9mm upper so I was curious.
    I carry two kinds of trauma kits. One for fixing it and one for causing it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasher View Post
    Gabe,

    I am not really current on my 9mm SMG mags. Does the Colt mag have the same profile and mag catch as the CProducts mag?

    Years ago I picked up and A1 Colt Commando 9mm upper so I was curious.
    CProducts is out of business. ASC and Duramag are making the Colt SMG mags now. Not sure what the C Products looked like.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #5
    I believe Metalform made the original OEM rampant pony colt 20 and 32 rd mags. These had metal followers and were built like tanks. They made 20 as well as 32rd mags - still do.

    Later, colt appeared to go to CP products mags, which had plastic followers and never felt as solid to me. (A subjective judgement to be sure, but at the time I was running both types in a 16" gun, the metal form mags just worked better.

    Your carnage may vary.

    Jake
    Last edited by Jake Salyards; 03-21-2021 at 12:36 PM.
    Wait for the Lord. Behave yourself manfully, and be of good courage.
    Do not be faithless, but stay in your place and do not turn back.
    Thomas Kempis

  6. #6
    20210321_133444.jpg

    4.5" upper
    On colt registered SBR
    9mm flash can
    Wait for the Lord. Behave yourself manfully, and be of good courage.
    Do not be faithless, but stay in your place and do not turn back.
    Thomas Kempis

  7. #7
    41768.jpg

    An iron sighted option

    Gabe, or ShopMonkey, if you want my info on where I sourced parts and components please call

    Jake
    678 850 0005

    PS - I have NO financial affiliation with any of the above items
    Last edited by Jake Salyards; 03-21-2021 at 11:01 AM.
    Wait for the Lord. Behave yourself manfully, and be of good courage.
    Do not be faithless, but stay in your place and do not turn back.
    Thomas Kempis

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Snohomish County, WA
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    ....if you could put a sling on sex........ Had to drop that one since a couple people cracked some Nichols jokes when I made a similar comment about 1911's.

    Another cool variant of the platform.
    The government selectively enforces laws, so I selectively follow them.

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    If the original uppers were not so expensive and if they were not considered machine gun parts out here I'd have bought a used Colt top end for my 9mm braced pistol.
    As it is I used a flat top, mounted a red dot and Magpuls.

    My lower is a dedicated "Colt style" pistol lower. It uses Colt mags, locks open on the last round, and works. Fully agree on the Colt mags. Bendy plastic should not be used on a faux SMG.
    Warrior for the working day.

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Richmond, VA
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    I've put together a couple 9MM ARs a year or so back.

    I bought Metalform and ASC mags. Thirty-two rounders.

    One of the Metalform mags. would not lock the bolt back after the last round. Found the little metal tab bent over. Straightened it up and no more issues. The "cheap" ASCs worked perfect from day one.

    I've seen complaints of unreliability with 9MM hollow points in these. Mine have been perfect with 115 grain hollow points. No experience with 124's or 147's.

    Neat guns.

    One of mine is a flat top receiver with a red dot. The other is a carry handle/A1 style upper (but with no forward assist as the bolt isn't made for that anyway). I built that one up to look like an XM177, till you put the magazine in it. So it's not short/compact at all.

    Now this thread has got me wondering about another one with an upper similar to those in the picture but with one of those pistol braces on the lower.

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