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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Alabama
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    210
    Using a soft lead, powder coated 170 grain flat nose without gas check, in .308 and .30-30;

    I had good accuracy up to around 1750 FPS.

    According to some old articles by Frank Marshall and Ed Harris, 190 grain lead bullets perform well in .30-30.

    Arsenal-311-170-308.jpg
    Last edited by Solothurn; 10-20-2020 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
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    7,918
    A wide flat meplat (French for the tip) will cause a wound cavity that is typically 3 to 4 times the diameter of the projectile. Gas checks are used when you want to push a lead bullet fast. As the powder load gets hotter it will melt the base and deposit a bunch more lead in the barrel while deforming the base and throwing off ballistics. I want to say the rule of thumb is to use them when things get faster than 1600 fps. I can't recall off the top of my head.
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  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    1,191
    A great book on this topic is Accurizing the Factory Rifle by McPerson. Covers a lot of good lever action tips. It is hard to find, but google is your friend.

    FWIW, I have NOT had good luck with the Lev’rlution ammo from Hornady in older Marlins. Theory of mine is they are too fast for the twist.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
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    16,001
    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    A great book on this topic is Accurizing the Factory Rifle by McPerson. Covers a lot of good lever action tips. It is hard to find, but google is your friend.

    FWIW, I have NOT had good luck with the Lev’rlution ammo from Hornady in older Marlins. Theory of mine is they are too fast for the twist.

    https://www.amazon.com/Accurizing-Fa.../dp/0967094836
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  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Somewhere in the Appalachians.
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    3,640
    My Winchester 94 shoots 3in groups at 100yds, and I've done nothing to it but find the factory ammo it liked. I can probably pull the group in a bit with some handloads, but I just started hand loading and have yet to try.

    The Model 94's biggest drawback, IMO, are the horrible Buckhorn style sights. A peep would be a massive improvement and likely all that needs to be done, considering the limitations on the cartridge itself.
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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    So one does need a gas check design. Some cure the powder coat in a toaster oven I read. I guess keep the velocity to about 1800 fps. I would like to go heavy and I need to research that.
    Yes heavy for caliber and maybe just under factory velocity kills like a hammer, anything one gives up in FPS is more than made up for with weight, the expansive properties of lead boolits and accuracy. This isnít just me blowing smoke, 30 caliber and up rifles are excellent candidates for heavy flat nose cast boolits for killing (game or bad guys ) .
    The best get started resource is the Lyman cast bullets handbook, any of the 3 but the third edition is by far the most comprehensive. Also PM for some on line resources- I donít know if posting other forums links is allowed.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    MI
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    102
    Quote Originally Posted by Solothurn View Post
    Using a soft lead, powder coated 170 grain flat nose without gas check, in .308 and .30-30;

    I had good accuracy up to around 1750 FPS.

    According to some old articles by Frank Marshall and Ed Harris, 190 grain lead bullets perform well in .30-30.



    Arsenal-311-170-308.jpg
    that’s a very nice looking boolit. Where do you get your powder?


    This mirrors my finding exactly, I’ve gotten a touch faster with 308 but took a little work, as DorkFace mentioned the “meplant” of wife flat nose is very destructive to tissue and bone, even with very hard lead that may not give bullet advertisement mushrooming a 30 cal hole in and a 30+ + hole out causes hydrostatic pressure to drop rapidly!
    Last edited by Nagantguy; 10-22-2020 at 11:12 AM.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona's Desert
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    330
    Quote Originally Posted by Solothurn View Post
    Using a soft lead, powder coated 170 grain flat nose without gas check, in .308 and .30-30;

    I had good accuracy up to around 1750 FPS.

    According to some old articles by Frank Marshall and Ed Harris, 190 grain lead bullets perform well in .30-30.
    To throw a little perspective in the mix.
    • A commercial 30-30, 170 grain factory load will push that 170 grain bullet out the muzzle at about 2330 fps.
    • As a general rule contemporary commercial factory 30-30 rounds are intentionally produced a bit on the soft side due to the existence of relic guns still in use today (There are some exceptions). Then original 1894 commercial loading pushed a 160 grain bullet out the barrel at 1976 fps.
    • Common velocities for a .30 cal. nineteenth century black powder round was between 1200-1600 fps.

    By reducing loads to velocities that are closer to the antiquated black powder that preceded modern smokeless powder, you do get better accuracy, but at the cost of performance.

    We saw this with the old PPC crowd. They could squeak out maximum accuracy potential out of a .38 Special revolver by loading hollow based wad cutters behind 2.5 grains of Bullsey, but at the end of the day, those cops would never carry that load for duty. Those who are armed for serious reasons won't trade off the advantage of an acceptable accuracy of a high performance 125 grain +P service round for the optimal accuracy of a lead HBWC?

    With regards to the 30-30; this is a pretty performance challenged caliber as it is. I think there should be a caveat in this discussion; accurizing the 30-30 is an interesting subject, but should only be considered when this can be done without significantly diminishing performance.
    Last edited by Cacti Rat; 10-22-2020 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    210
    that’s a very nice looking boolit. Where do you get your powder?
    It's an Arsenal Molds 311-170 RF. I'm using Harbor Freight powder, but I think they quit carrying it. When that runs out I plan to get Smoke's powder, prolly in Zombie Green!

    D1.jpg
    I haven't used it on game but a bud's daughter shot her first deer, a spike, at 30 yards broadside, a little far back. It fell down a small mountain for about 200 yards, leaving a large blood trail. Hit the back of a lung, blew apart the liver, and got into the guts a little. Baseball-size exit wound.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    210
    A commercial 30-30, 170 grain factory load will push that 170 grain bullet out the muzzle at about 2330 fps.
    I get 2138 fps from a 20-inch barrel over my chronograph. The jacketed bullet will have a lil flatter trajectory, but a 170 grain lead flat nose at 1700 gives better performance on game than the JSP factory load.

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