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  1. #11
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    Not to de-rail the conversation, but you might check the crown. Old guns sometimes get wear, damage, "kitchen gunsmithing," etc. in the unlikeliest of places. I had a couple of vintage pieces that benefited greatly from re-crowning. That's usually the first thing I check after making sure the sights and optics* are mounted properly ... and the nut holding the gun is doing his job. ;)

    * Speaking of which, way back when I had an AR-180 with a factory 3x scope. It shot great when I first got it, but gradually the groups got wider and wider. After fretting over it for several weeks we checked and the screws that held the scope to the mount had loosened. Took'em out, cleaned them, Loc-tite and was back in business. Of course, like an idiot I sold that piece thinking, Oh, I can get another one later. Dumbass that I am.
    Redneck Zen
    "Be careful what you get good at."

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    NWFL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Zen View Post
    Not to de-rail the conversation, but you might check the crown. Old guns sometimes get wear, damage, "kitchen gunsmithing," etc. in the unlikeliest of places. I had a couple of vintage pieces that benefited greatly from re-crowning. That's usually the first thing I check after making sure the sights and optics* are mounted properly ... and the nut holding the gun is doing his job. ;)

    * Speaking of which, way back when I had an AR-180 with a factory 3x scope. It shot great when I first got it, but gradually the groups got wider and wider. After fretting over it for several weeks we checked and the screws that held the scope to the mount had loosened. Took'em out, cleaned them, Loc-tite and was back in business. Of course, like an idiot I sold that piece thinking, Oh, I can get another one later. Dumbass that I am.

    If all else fails I will recrown them. but most likely cure is first looking at the fit of the forearm and mag tube. One of them was like new and I believe the other while having a little rust just sat in a closet for years and has an action as smooth as a marlin. That is something some 94s need is work on making the action smooth. Many do ruin rifle crowns with a cleaning rod. it is for example almost impossible to shoot out a steel barrel .22, but improper use of a cleaning rod has ruin the crown of many. There are some rimfire 50 meter brench rest types that never clean their rifle bores.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona's Desert
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    332
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    I just found out that when resting a tube loading lever gun to rest either on the receiver or as close as possible.
    Good point. Another issue related to the the magazine tube's affect on accuracy is with sling attachments.

    The M94 doesn't come with sling attachments, those are after market. I think all of the after market M94 forward sling mounts attach to the magazine tube. When shouldering the rifle with this type of forward sling mount in a snug hasty sling, diagonal pressure is applied to the magazine tube which is in contact with the barrel, that pressure is then distributed to the barrel. This creates a condition that wasn't present in the bench sighting process.

    As we're finding in this topic, the Winchester rifle has a whole host of accuracy related issues that Marlin did their best to mitigate.

    The one area where the Winchester is preferable to the Marlin is in what the old timers called a "handy rifle". I always thought this was a reference to the M94's narrow girth. Sometimes when handling the Winchester rifle, I feel like I'm carrying a piece of metal pipe.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Midwest
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    2,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacti Rat View Post
    The one area where the Winchester is preferable to the Marlin is in what the old timers called a "handy rifle". I always thought this was a reference to the M94's narrow girth. Sometimes when handling the Winchester rifle, I feel like I'm carrying a piece of metal pipe.
    Owning both the Win 94 and the Marlins 336 and 1895, I must say I agree. The Winchester feels much more "svelte" and "nimble," whereas the Marlins definitely feel "chunkier and clunkier." I've not done any accuracy comparisons btwn the 94 and the 336, as my 94 is iron-sighted and the 336 is scoped.
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  5. #15
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    If all else fails I will recrown them. but most likely cure is first looking at the fit of the forearm and mag tube. One of them was like new and I believe the other while having a little rust just sat in a closet for years and has an action as smooth as a marlin. That is something some 94s need is work on making the action smooth. Many do ruin rifle crowns with a cleaning rod. it is for example almost impossible to shoot out a steel barrel .22, but improper use of a cleaning rod has ruin the crown of many. There are some rimfire 50 meter brench rest types that never clean their rifle bores.
    I've read and listened to interviews with guys who make barrels and build rifles -- Like McMillan and Krieger -- who contend that the greatest danger to a barrel is the shooter who cleans it too often or incorrectly. They also hold that "breaking in" barrels is a myth or habit that serves no purpose other than to risk damaging the barrel, specifically the crown. Last interview I saw with Krieger, he said "just go shoot the thing."

    Of course, I don't shoot long range anything, just play around, so take this for what it's worth.
    Last edited by Redneck Zen; 10-13-2020 at 05:14 PM.
    Redneck Zen
    "Be careful what you get good at."

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    590
    I would imagine that using a boresnake for anything but the toughest cleaning jobs would help avoid damaging the crown. (But somebody correct me if there's a characteristic of boresnakes that causes similar harm to the crown, too.)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    MI
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    102
    I’ve went down this exact road twice with two almost identical 94 30-30s and a 94 44 trapper carbine. With all three aperture sights helped a good deal. Also with the mid 1930s 30-30s both had some throws erosion and cast boolits with a powder coat “lube” allowed full velocity and near or at MOA accuracy one liked boolits sized at .310 the second 311 and both older 94s had the aforementioned and dreaded bubba “smithing” done during their lives, bent loose pins, weak lifer springs, packed with crud, random machine screws to replace lost or broken ones. One needed recrowned and that helped tremendously and the other looked okay given its age and still showed markedly improved accuracy from a DYI recrowning .
    The other thing to remember, really remember is that the Appalachian assault rifle isn’t meant to be , supposed to be or is a sub MOA Precision arm, but instead think of it as what the best and highest tuned AK platform wants to be, handy , hard hitting easy to work on tough to break no frills alway works meat getter and bad guy put downer.
    Cartridge lifted springs and magazine tube springs should always be replaced if you don’t know the last time it was done, even consistent pressure and loading and chambering can be critical with rounded bullets or flatter nose boolits.
    Don’t scoff at cast boolits in the old lever gun/ revolver either until you try it out, fit is king, if your 20,30, 40, 100 year old rifle has a enlarged throat or bore or some “weak” or rough rifling than a factory spec 308 projectile will neither seal nor engage rifling properly and give you minute of 55 gallon drum.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    NWFL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagantguy View Post
    I’ve went down this exact road twice with two almost identical 94 30-30s and a 94 44 trapper carbine. With all three aperture sights helped a good deal. Also with the mid 1930s 30-30s both had some throws erosion and cast boolits with a powder coat “lube” allowed full velocity and near or at MOA accuracy one liked boolits sized at .310 the second 311 and both older 94s had the aforementioned and dreaded bubba “smithing” done during their lives, bent loose pins, weak lifer springs, packed with crud, random machine screws to replace lost or broken ones. One needed recrowned and that helped tremendously and the other looked okay given its age and still showed markedly improved accuracy from a DYI recrowning .
    The other thing to remember, really remember is that the Appalachian assault rifle isn’t meant to be , supposed to be or is a sub MOA Precision arm, but instead think of it as what the best and highest tuned AK platform wants to be, handy , hard hitting easy to work on tough to break no frills alway works meat getter and bad guy put downer.
    Cartridge lifted springs and magazine tube springs should always be replaced if you don’t know the last time it was done, even consistent pressure and loading and chambering can be critical with rounded bullets or flatter nose boolits.
    Don’t scoff at cast boolits in the old lever gun/ revolver either until you try it out, fit is king, if your 20,30, 40, 100 year old rifle has a enlarged throat or bore or some “weak” or rough rifling than a factory spec 308 projectile will neither seal nor engage rifling properly and give you minute of 55 gallon drum.
    Makes sense about the throat and that perhaps a cast bullet could be set up to better fit such.

    What wt of bullet did you use and I assume flat nose using linotype. There are as I recall specific lyman designs for the 30-30.
    I want 3 moa.
    Military bolt guns with damaged muzzles are routinely counterbored instead of recrowning them.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    MI
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    102
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    Makes sense about the throat and that perhaps a cast bullet could be set up to better fit such.

    What wt of bullet did you use and I assume flat nose using linotype. There are as I recall specific lyman designs for the 30-30.
    I want 3 moa.
    Military bolt guns with damaged muzzles are routinely counterbored instead of recrowning them.
    Yes wide flat nose is a much better meat and tissue destroying shape than round nose and I’d argue as good or better than HP. Molds for 30 caliber abound , even start relatively cheap with a lee mould. Don’t even worry to much about alloy at this point and fairly soft to mildly hard blend of lead wil do- red Er we plan to powder coat the bullet after casting instead of using a more traditional sticky stinky smoke creating lube.
    So take a “slug “ of your bore and a cast of your chamber , both easy to do- and take careful measurements of both- if you bed say .310 diameter boolit than you can use a 30 caliber mold- which wil most probably drop over sized from the mold by a thousandth or 2 , remember we are still going to powder coat and gas check the boolit before final sizing.

  10. #20
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    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagantguy View Post
    Yes wide flat nose is a much better meat and tissue destroying shape than round nose and I’d argue as good or better than HP. Molds for 30 caliber abound , even start relatively cheap with a lee mould. Don’t even worry to much about alloy at this point and fairly soft to mildly hard blend of lead wil do- red Er we plan to powder coat the bullet after casting instead of using a more traditional sticky stinky smoke creating lube.
    So take a “slug “ of your bore and a cast of your chamber , both easy to do- and take careful measurements of both- if you bed say .310 diameter boolit than you can use a 30 caliber mold- which wil most probably drop over sized from the mold by a thousandth or 2 , remember we are still going to powder coat and gas check the boolit before final sizing.
    So one does need a gas check design. Some cure the powder coat in a toaster oven I read. I guess keep the velocity to about 1800 fps. I would like to go heavy and I need to research that.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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