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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    778

    Default Just took the class to renew my Illinois CCL...

    ... and it has REALLY imprinted on me that some people should REALLY not carry a gun.

    The course was a simple, remedial 3 hour affair that mostly covered legal issues, Illinois use-of-force statutes, basic gun safety/ how to not shoot yourself, that sort of thing. Here’s in Illinois, we have to take one of these classes every 5 years to renew our CCL... at our own expense of course. Mildly annoying, but it could be worse, and in some states, is.

    After all this, there is a shooting test at the end. Extremely easy, a chimpanzee could pass it with a day of training, literally. B27 target, 30 shots. 5, 7, and 10 yards, 10 rounds at each distance. 21 of the 30 must hit anywhere in the black to pass.

    The class was composed of 11 people total, myself included. We all brought our own handguns to “qualify” with, and upon uncasing our firearms, it immediately became apparent that some members of the class hadn’t so much as touched their gun in the last 5 years. Others had brought guns they had clearly NEVER bothered to familiarize themselves with, much less fire so much as a box of ammo through. One gentleman had to be immediately reminded to keep his finger off the trigger.

    We went out to the range in groups of 2, and the gent I was with was an older man, maybe mid 70’s, and he had brought a tiny pocket .22, something like a Beretta Tomcat. The instructor had us do a few dry fire trigger presses to assess our safety. Damn good thing, because the other guy wrapped his off-hand index finger over the muzzle of his pistol before his first trigger press. If we had gone straight to live-fire, he’d have lost that finger. The instructor very patiently corrected his grip, then had him continue. He wrapped his offhand thumb over the back of his other hand next directly behind the slide, like an older revolver grip. Commence instructor once again correcting his grip. This sort of thing happened a few more times before the instructor was satisfied the man wasn’t going to injure himself with his own gun. During the live-fire portion, his gun malfunctioned a few times, each of which required a multiple-minutes long intervention by the instructor before he was g2g again. I will say by the end of it, the gent DID put all 30 rounds within the 8 and 9 rings, not bad for an old man with a pocket .22 he’d clearly never handled before.

    Upon seeing the other’s targets, I was appalled at some of them. 10 yards max, and a few people didn’t even put all 30 in the black, and most looked more like big shotgun patterns than groups. I wouldn’t want any of those folks shooting past me to hit a bad guy. Although one older man with an ancient S&W .38 revolver put all his rounds into one hole in the X.

    This was a RENEWAL class, full of people who has ostensibly been carrying a handgun for the past 5 years. There were 2 or 3 who were squared away and knew what they were doing, but the rest of them reminded me more of a class full of beginners who had never handled a gun before. I would have expected that in the class to acquire the CCL in the first place, but that sort of thing is just embarrassing in a 5 year renewal class.
    - "When a resolute young fellow steps up to the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers."- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    - We are what we do. You know who someone IS by what they DO. To do is to be...not the other way around.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Florida
    Posts
    762
    A class to exercise a civil right?

    I could live with it, if the same principle applied to voting.

    -- ML
    Last edited by Mushinto; 08-22-2020 at 06:49 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,932
    When I left the Midwest, there were no Illinois CCLs.

    And no Glocks, SIG 226s, Beretta 92FSs...Smith 59, anyone?

    Irritating as it is, better than it was. Still, time for Moses to rise up early in the morning and have a little chat with Pharoah.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.

    P:20

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    15,814
    Been there done that! The instructor went and got a 22 for an elderly lady who was trying to shoot a 38 snub nose so she could qualify. This was for the initial training. When Dad renewed his, he could not stand for that long due to medical problems, so they allowed him to sit and shoot. He did very well. Of course the instructor said he would have to fail me since he could not count all my rounds to verify they were all on target (shot a 2 inch hole dead center!) He was joking!
    I rather you hated me for who I am than love me for who I ain't!
    This Ain't the Movies, and You Ain't John Wayne!

    Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a 12 pound sledgehammer!
    TRAIN HARD= SOONER OR LATER YOU"LL NEED IT!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona's Desert
    Posts
    321
    There are basically three positions in the CCW training matter.

    1. The courses should be lengthy and as close to POST as civilian possible. You should be REQUIRED to demonstrate skill, as defined by the authorities, and pass a multiple choice written test with a minimum score of 70%. My first CCW class in the mid 90's was like this. I felt like a circus seal performing for the ring master for the bait fish treat.

    2. The minimalist course. Just sit through a couple hours of legal and safety lecture, and demonstrate how to load, unload and hit a trash can lid at, oh.... three yards. I'm better with this format. Just let me show how to safely manipulate the weapon, shoot the trash can lid and send me on my way.

    3. No permit required. It's my responsibility to know the law, (I don't sit well taking legal advice from CCW instructors) and it's my responsibility to be skilled. There are morons out there, but I take care of myself. I doubt government's ability to weed out the idiots from the pack.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    46,427
    There are people who should never carry a gun, drive a car, vote, or even procreate. The illusion of equality is just that...an illusion.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    There are people who should never carry a gun, drive a car, vote, or even procreate. The illusion of equality is just that...an illusion.
    I think I saw half of them at Walmart the other day...
    Proud dog faced pony soldier... Whatever that is
    "Zen? Meh! Who needs it? All that effort to achieve nothingness and what do you got? Bupkis!"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    778
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacti Rat View Post
    There are basically three positions in the CCW training matter.

    1. The courses should be lengthy and as close to POST as civilian possible. You should be REQUIRED to demonstrate skill, as defined by the authorities, and pass a multiple choice written test with a minimum score of 70%. My first CCW class in the mid 90's was like this. I felt like a circus seal performing for the ring master for the bait fish treat.

    2. The minimalist course. Just sit through a couple hours of legal and safety lecture, and demonstrate how to load, unload and hit a trash can lid at, oh.... three yards. I'm better with this format. Just let me show how to safely manipulate the weapon, shoot the trash can lid and send me on my way.

    3. No permit required. It's my responsibility to know the law, (I don't sit well taking legal advice from CCW instructors) and it's my responsibility to be skilled. There are morons out there, but I take care of myself. I doubt government's ability to weed out the idiots from the pack.
    Emphasis mine. 100% agreed. In all the CCW classes I’ve taken, a raw beginner would have left those classes absolutely TERRIFIED to even consider carrying a gun, much less ever actually drawing and shooting an attacker, such was the Ayoobian fear-mongering preached by the instructors.
    - "When a resolute young fellow steps up to the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers."- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    - We are what we do. You know who someone IS by what they DO. To do is to be...not the other way around.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by kabar View Post
    I think I saw half of them at Walmart the other day...

    I saw " the other half " last weak at Academy Sports/Outdoors trying to buy ammo.
    Many are able, few are willing .

    Dirty is exactly why you are here.

    NV28

    RGF,PSP,ACRG x 2,CRG x 2
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    HITS-7 Vehicle Gunfighting Fundamentals
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    Red Dot Pistol in S.A. Tx.
    Suarez Pistol Gunfighting School 10/13-15/2017 Houston, Texas.
    Red Dot Combat Pistol School ,Mar 6-8-2020,Orange Tx.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,729
    I would clearly prefer option 3 with a way to take a class and be issued a permit so that I was legal in other states that recognized mine.

    As for taking legal advice from a CCW instructor? A lot of what what I have heard them give over the last 25 years has been truly bad advice.
    I carry two kinds of trauma kits. One for fixing it and one for causing it.

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