PDW: 9mm vs 5.56

[WinstonSmith]

No love for the CZ EVO or MP5?

[Gabriel Suarez]

No love for the CZ EVO or MP5?

From me?

Not really. As much as I love MP5s, my personal Hyena 300 BO with an additional Maxim Brace is far more compact, and lighter than my MP5 was, and it can be just as quiet when suppressed, or use super sonic ammo for a near 7.62x39 performance. Beats the hell out of both the EVO and the MP5 for modern 2020 issues.

[Dorkface]

Another trick up .300 blks sleeve is that its power load is pistol powder roughly twice that of 9mm. It results in less blast, flash, noise and no powder burning outside the barrel like you get with 5.56 and is more capable than 9mm.

[Brent Yamamoto]

No love for the CZ EVO or MP5?

I’m on the same page as Gabe. I like those guns a lot and would be happy to carry them, but if carrying something that size I’d rather have the 300.

[WinstonSmith]

Alright. I was going to do an EVO project. Rethinking it.

Is 8" the shortest reliable 300 BLK barrel? What's typical OAL when suppressed?

[Dorkface]

Alright. I was going to do an EVO project. Rethinking it.

Is 8" the shortest reliable 300 BLK barrel? What's typical OAL when suppressed?

8 is the most common. Some 7.5's sometimes. The only real limit on how short is going to be the pistol length gas system. Even my 16" .300 uses a pistol length gas system. Length with the can will greatly depend on the can but say 12 to 14ish will be pretty common.

[WinstonSmith]

Anyone touched off a 300 BLK unsuppressed indoors care to comment compared to a 9mm subgun? The pressure from 5.56 indoors is not something I would prefer to experience.

[Dorkface]

Closest I have come is inside the covered shooting area at the range. I think a G19 is worse than my .300 inside. I have shot a bunch of .300 and 9mm from smg side by side and thought the .300 was slightly better in AR's. 9mm in an mp5sd was only quieter due to the difference in the actions between it and the AR. A JP Enterprises silent captured spring brought the AR much closer. .300 vs 9mm in full auto is also basically the same if you were wondering lol.

[Greg Nichols]

Alright. I was going to do an EVO project. Rethinking it.

Is 8" the shortest reliable 300 BLK barrel? What's typical OAL when suppressed?

I dig the EVO. But stick to the role of portable PDW, gun in a bag kinda thing. I have the maxim brace on my 5.56 and given my druthers would rather have that if I could but I like to fill holes in my arsenal. One side note id rather shoot the evo inside a car than a 5.56

[LawDog]

I still think the SMG has a role. But perhaps I'm just trying to vindicate the EVO because it's so much fun. I love that little gun. It's lighter and (slightly) more compact. Comparing apples to apples, it's still quieter than the .300. Also, getting the .300 quiet requires sacrificing most of its ability. Quieting the 9mm has only a marginal effect on its terminal performance. If you chop the barrel and add a can, it's almost as short as the 8" .300 without a can. The design is brilliantly simple. It's about as likely to break as an anvil, and yet it's still a lightweight.

The bedside gun will definitely remain a rifle caliber. Size doesn't matter as much there. While I don't want the length of a 22" AR-10, anything equal to or less than a MK18 will do fine in that role.

The "traveling" gun is something that I envision using outdoors. What are the likely scenarios that compel me to pull out the truck gun? A riot is one possibility. An EMP that necessitates a long walk home. Any event that binds up traffic in such a way that my truck is rendered immobile. Basically, something that requires me to abandon the truck and walk out. Or I flew somewhere and don't have my own truck--maybe not any ride at all. If it's an urban area, there will probably be other people moving around with me, and most of them will not be targets. So I need to be able to carry the gun discreetly, and yet I also want it to be accessible.

A multitude of scenarios are possible, but I'll try to paint the picture of a rather horrible one. You're attending a professional conference in a city of some size, when a massive, coordinated attack takes place. I'll use the villain of the day: Antifa. They set off multiple bombs in order to draw out emergency workers, then attacked the police stations after most of the cops had rolled out to the various emergencies. Once they got inside, they tore down the radio network and dispatch center, so the police are now left without a central command. This group isn't content to throw rocks and point lasers at cops, though. They had already positioned snipers to attack the first responders when they arrived at the emergencies that Antifa created. So the cops are running for cover themselves, and in a very uncoordinated manner. Chaos erupts and within minutes the roads are so packed that you can't even ram your way through with an MRAP. This scenario is a bit overboard, but it provides a context.

What do you want to have with you, and what do you do? Realistically, I'm probably just going to hole up for a while. I'll go down to the kitchen and rob them of a reasonable amount of food, then take it back to my room. Once the dust settles, then I can plan my next move. But what if I have to move immediately? What if I'm thrust into the crowd of people on the street who are all trying to figure out how to get home? (Because that's what everyone is going to do--try to go home.) I don't want to be walking around with an SPR. The Antifa snipers might see me and shoot me. I've got a pistol in my waistband, but I want more. Part of the "more" that I can carry is just to add another mag to my belt. Most people carry one or two spare mags. Whatever your number is, have an additional mag with a pouch so that you can up your mags by one if you notice things getting weird.

In that crazy scenario, what's the most gun I can carry without sticking out? I can probably get away with the .300 carried across my chest, as long as I've got a bag or something to cover the gun. But if I add the can, then it gets too long. And I probably have to carry it with the stock or brace folded, which means that it can't be fired until I lock it in place. But with the EVO, I could fire with the stock folded, and I can keep the can in place. And in a city, I probably won't be working outside of the gun's maximum envelope. (Though I won't be punching through cinder block, either.)

As much as I'd say that I want the .300's ballistic advantage, I would rather be carrying the EVO when I'm trying to keep it accessible and concealed on a public street. It's a hard call, because you aren't going to take everything with you when you are travelling. You choose one, not yet knowing what the mission will be. Even with the 9mm's shortcomings, I can understand why some people would choose the EVO, and I can see how it would be better in some scenarios. I wouldn't throw out the EVO/MP5/SMG altogether.

And, if I didn't say it loudly enough the first time, the EVO is so much fun.