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  1. #21
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    Nov 2008
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    621
    Quote Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
    Nobody is mentioning the P365 ... the “best selling pistol in America.”

    I know that the smaller pistols probably aren’t anywhere near the market share of the larger pistols.
    I've got a P365XL. In a lot of ways, Sig might have done better to sell this instead of the P320. It really is single-stack thickness. The trigger is OK by striker-fired standards.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    4,942
    Thoughts:

    1. The manual safety is a non-starter as far as LE (despite safety concerns regarding that naked trigger).
    2. LE is a fickle customer. Look how quickly the legacy Berettas and SIGs ended up on the used market. Purchasing is based on cost, tradein value and often kickbacks.
    3. SIG is notorious for parts shortages. Still waiting on my "coupon" 21s, having already bought some on the open market.
    4. SIG parts cost, almost twice as much as equivalent parts from other makes. And they do indeed outsource some parts manufacturing to India.
    5. SIG mags cost--and SIG refuses to base new releases around the legacy mags, which are pretty damned good. So I don't own a 2300 series and wouldn't own a 320 series but for the M17/18 being a reference gun for me.

    That said, an M18 currently rides on my belt as part of an extended eval. It was rough as a cob until I got about 200 rounds through it (consistent with what other reviewers have reported) and it is reliable and accurate. It's got a small compact grip on it today. I carry it exclusively with thumb safety on for the reasons Gabe mentioned.

    This one will do to ride the river with. But market dominance? No es probable.
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  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Arizona's Desert
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    431
    Bold

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Thoughts:

    1. The manual safety is a non-starter as far as LE (despite safety concerns regarding that naked trigger).

    Maybe not the line staff, but large contract urban police administrators think the external safety is the solution to poor training.

    2. LE is a fickle customer. Look how quickly the legacy Berettas and SIGs ended up on the used market. Purchasing is based on cost, tradein value and often kickbacks.

    I'm sure that Sig is counting on this in their marketing strategy. It doesn't matter what the line officers want. If you can wine and dine (don't forget the whores) the Training Bureau to dive into the world of SIG (it's not their money), that'll be another notch on the Sig's marketing bed post.

    3. SIG is notorious for parts shortages. Still waiting on my "coupon" 21s, having already bought some on the open market.

    Bet those shortages don't happen with the government contracts.

    4. SIG parts cost, almost twice as much as equivalent parts from other makes. And they do indeed outsource some parts manufacturing to India.

    I'm sure Uncle Sam is getting a sweet deal on parts (NOT you or me).

    5. SIG mags cost--and SIG refuses to base new releases around the legacy mags, which are pretty damned good. So I don't own a 2300 series and wouldn't own a 320 series but for the M17/18 being a reference gun for me.

    See number 4.
    I'm not trying to troll. I don't think Sig is as screwed up as everybody thinks they are; I'm not too hip to the industry side of the gun world. This is what I see.Sig doesn't give a rat's ass about the individual gun consumer. Their priorities seem to be:

    1) Securing a lucrative military contract that will span 10 years.

    2) Securing Law Enforcement agency contracts. Remember, the consumer in this case isn't the individual field officer. It's, in most cases, the large urban police agency Bureau Administrators and their staff. In most cases, line staff are out of the decision making process.

    3) Hooking a largely ignorant 19 out of 20 American individual gun consumer. This is a long term goal.

    We as a group can assess the Sig pistol line up vs. others and give Sig a big yawn on prospects, but we are an exception to the average American. I would guess that 19 out of 20 "average" Glock, S&W or Sig owners couldn't explain the operating system of the weapon they possess, let alone the subtle differences of other patterns. We are the 1 out of 20.

    Sig want's to target the 19 out of 20. The guys who want to be ,like a Navy SEAL (In their mind).
    Last edited by Cacti Rat; 07-23-2020 at 03:40 PM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Midwest
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    2,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    The best SIG in my opinion is the SIG P229. I carry mine quite often...second only to the 226. If there was a sufficient market...and there is not...we would mill slides and be driving the 226 and 229.

    Here, here!

    P229R w: RM01.jpg
    Waitin' for a squeeze...

    TWOTU Since March 2012

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  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    European Union - Romania
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    255
    Quote Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
    Nobody is mentioning the P365 ... the “best selling pistol in America.”

    I know that the smaller pistols probably aren’t anywhere near the market share of the larger pistols.
    I ve just bought a P365 and I dislike totally to the point, I ll sell it as soon as possible.

    1. too thin and few grip for my big hands and no space at all to place my suport hand on the frame
    2. the corner of the handle end grip stuck in my palm and create lot of disconfort and singns
    3. when I try to eject the empty magazine, this is remain in my palm
    4.if I put my suport hand on the frame, the thumb of suport hand is arriving almost at the level with the barel
    5. to complicate for disansablley and ansamblley too
    6. it is come with no tritium sights
    7. short distance trriger - grip, resulting in to much finger into the guard
    8. pointing down vs my Glocks
    9. 30% more expensive as Glocks

    I like the trriger and the slide's apperance, but I ll not take as ccw and thrusting my life in it versus my G19 or 17

    Here in European Union, I ve heard that Sig is preparring to stop production and relocating all its production to the US market. They is unsatisfied that we don t apreciate the quality of the Sig vs Glock or Walther.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Alexandru; 08-15-2020 at 12:40 PM. Reason: add info
    “No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I knew none, and therefore am no beast.” Richard III – William Shakespeare

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona's Desert
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    431
    That's the general opinion here, but we are the 1 out of 20 gun owners.

    I think Sig doesn't want to market to us. They want to market to the other 19; the slag heap of gun owners. I think the Govt. contracts are powerful to the civilian market. As soon as the Sig is featured in enough police and war action movies, the fantasies will begin.

    Look what Dirty Harry did to the .44 Magnum.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandru View Post
    I ve just bought a P365 and I dislike totally to the point, I ll sell it as soon as possible.

    1. too thin and few grip for my big hands and no space at all to place my suport hand on the frame
    2. the corner of the handle end grip stuck in my palm and create lot of disconfort and singns
    3. when I try to eject the empty magazine, this is remain in my palm
    4.if I put my suport hand on the frame, the thumb of suport hand is arriving almost at the level with the barel
    5. to complicate for disansablley and ansamblley too
    6. it is come with no tritium sights
    7. short distance trriger - grip, resulting in to much finger into the guard
    8. pointing down vs my Glocks
    9. 30% more expensive as Glocks

    I like the trriger and the slide's apperance, but I ll not take as ccw and thrusting my life in it versus my G19 or 17

    Here in European Union, I ve heard that Sig is preparring to stop production and relocating all its production to the US market. They is unsatisfied that we don t apreciate the quality of the Sig vs Glock or Walther.
    1. may not be for everyone - fit's my hands perfectly
    2. May want to try the XL frame
    3. XL frame solves this
    4. Some people can shoot it great like this (see Lena Miculek's video). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_F9o1XfsG0
    5. Not really, really?
    6. It does, if you get the right model. X-Ray sights certainly are the standard model. Base model only has 3 Dot sights.
    7. Not for me, works great.
    8. Points great for me. And MUCH better trigger than 43X
    9. Same price point as 43X here in DFW area.

    I love the P365. Carry it everyday.

    James

  8. #28
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    Sep 2012
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    Ft. Riley, KS
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    1,135
    Is SIG poised to dominate the handgun market because they scored a military contract? Yep, just like Beretta did after 1985... Oh, wait.

    I’ll never understand the love SIG gets. Sure they make some quality hardware. But for every P229 they bring to market they also have a SIG 556 that turns out to be all hype and a box of disappointment that they soon abandon. Sure their AR rifles are decent but at this point a drunk money could turn out a reliable AR15. Simply put, based on their history, I don’t trust SIG Sauer to produce a solid product that they will maintain support for. Especially when there are other, better options available.


    "If you find yourself in a fair fight you failed to properly prepare..."

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  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    European Union - Romania
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    255
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacti Rat View Post
    That's the general opinion here, but we are the 1 out of 20 gun owners.

    I think Sig doesn't want to market to us. They want to market to the other 19; the slag heap of gun owners. I think the Govt. contracts are powerful to the civilian market. As soon as the Sig is featured in enough police and war action movies, the fantasies will begin.

    Look what Dirty Harry did to the .44 Magnum.

    media spread, that is the reson why I've bought my first off duty pistol, about 15 years ago.... Beretta 92 FS
    “No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I knew none, and therefore am no beast.” Richard III – William Shakespeare

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,820
    I think it's obvious that scoring the big juicy US mil contract will sell a bunch of civilian pistols, but "dominate" the market seems a bit of a stretch.

    It's an interesting design an it lends itself to customising. I'm sure there will be a bunch of aftermarket stuff made for it and I hope lots of US companies employ lots of folks making and peddling all that stuff. Time will tell what state and municipal LE does. As far as "dominating the market" that's just hyperbole.

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