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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,047
    Disclaimer: I worked for Barnes Bullets as business development director for a number of years.
    There are unique advantages to their bullet designs.
    1. All copper-bullets (no lead) are lighter for weight in the same shape as a copper/cup/lead
    /core bullet.
    2. The less dense/lighter copper Barnes bullet will have full contact with the rifling, about the same as a conventional bullet.
    3. The Barnes TSX has a special stamped open tip that helps with accuracy but gives full, consistent 1.5X expanding performance while retaining weight for penetration.
    4. Because the expanded shape is over 90% consistent, i.e., balanced retained weight in a spinning petal format, it tracks straight through the target without blowing up or diverging off the kill path.

    Looking at hand loading a magnum primer, special powder, special quantity to pop velocity quickly are all potentially useful, depending on the terminal effect of the bullet you use. The TSX should be a top consideration.

    Tipped bullets can be problematic in the magazine (recoil) and chamber loading in semi-autos. When a single tip breaks off in S/A loading, your gun can go TU and take some time to get working again.

    Varmint bullets with open tips that are compressed metals designed to fragment after only shallow penetration have their limited applications. I hit an antelope in the heart with one shot at 325 yards from a 20” .308 using a 130 grn fragmenting Barnes MPG @ 3100 FPS/mv. It blew up the heart and some of the lungs without exiting. The animal jumped and ran about 70 yards even though it was DRT. On paper that load shot .32” at 100 yards—10 rounds from a Savage 110 bolt action.
    Last edited by CB3; 06-28-2020 at 09:46 AM.
    Lord of harvest, grant that we wholesome grain and pure may be. Hymn, Come Ye Thankful People Come

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,463
    There does not seem to be too much interest in dealing with barriers and I have little interest in hunting 4-legged critters here.
    If I am going to the 7.62 nato, barriers is a consideration at least to me in an urban or suburban landscape. I do not feel authoritative enough to offer loads and projectiles, I do know the issues of concern to me: heavier pick up trucks, perhaps a stolen dump truck crashing a neighborhood barricade, and shooting through the walls of various structures. Of the expanding bullets, the barnes copper bullets seem to have the best reputation for going through barriers, at least in a lower powered round like the 7.62x39. I am not necessarily convinced that steel core is always the best and I do not know too much more to say on the subject.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,287
    I read a lot of guys like the lighter bullets for up to 200 yd. competition shooting in .308 M1 and M1A rifles. Less recoil and still decent groups on paper.

    Animals, people to sometimes, don't know they are dead till loss of blood shuts them down.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    213
    I am also considering barrier penetration, especially armor, which has more to do with speed and sectional density. That is why I am also loading some 85gr bullets for the 6.5 CM. Reloader 15 can push those up to 3500 fps and maybe a little beyond. Out of the Savage 12LRP, they may prove very useful. I can test those out on ground hogs and yotes to see how effective they are. Also have a piece of 5/8 steel just to test my theory. Might have to move up to 100gr bullets, but they can get a little north of 3200fps. Be fun to test it and see what I can find out.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,463
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlassit View Post
    I am also considering barrier penetration, especially armor, which has more to do with speed and sectional density. That is why I am also loading some 85gr bullets for the 6.5 CM. Reloader 15 can push those up to 3500 fps and maybe a little beyond. Out of the Savage 12LRP, they may prove very useful. I can test those out on ground hogs and yotes to see how effective they are. Also have a piece of 5/8 steel just to test my theory. Might have to move up to 100gr bullets, but they can get a little north of 3200fps. Be fun to test it and see what I can find out.
    I am more interested in defense against mob type attacks and the could involve shooting through concealment, light cover, and vehicles used to launch and attack. The high speed .308 loads you mention will likely defeat the level 3 enhanced plates that are not quite level IV. I am not sure about level IV plates. But the plates only cover specific areas of the torso and I doubt that too many rioters will be running around with level IV plates. And if they are then I guess you need to blow off a leg, arm, or head.
    Me I will likely go with an AR15 pistol or carbine. They can reach out to 200 yards w/o difficulty and those with skill can make hits at even longer ranges. They are light and handy in close quarters.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlassit View Post
    I am also considering barrier penetration, especially armor, which has more to do with speed and sectional density. That is why I am also loading some 85gr bullets for the 6.5 CM. Reloader 15 can push those up to 3500 fps and maybe a little beyond. Out of the Savage 12LRP, they may prove very useful. I can test those out on ground hogs and yotes to see how effective they are. Also have a piece of 5/8 steel just to test my theory. Might have to move up to 100gr bullets, but they can get a little north of 3200fps. Be fun to test it and see what I can find out.
    You are right that high speed is what punches through steel, just keep in mind your target distance; sometimes the lighter bullets are not better, but also it's worth finding something streamlined like that 125 NBT. Ballistic coefficient has a significant effect even at just 100 yards, and sometimes a slightly heavier bullet ends up retaining higher velocity at your target because ping pong balls loose speed pretty fast. My 20 Tactical is a good example of that, with the little 24gr NTX bullets at 4,700 fps at the muzzle, but losing about 800 fps in the first 100 yards. By 250 yards, they are going slower than the 40gr V-Max at the same distance, which started out almost 900 fps slower. B.c. matters.

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