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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    NWFL
    Posts
    15,352
    Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto
    How common is it for plain clothed officers to knock on doors with the expectation of an arrest? I honestly don't know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    NEVER IN MY EXPERIENCE

    If an arrest is expected, they bring marked and uniformed personnel
    There is another case of LEOs in plain clothes executing what was a no knock search warrant at what appears to have been the wrong address.

    Apparently upon review of the circumstance if they are in plain clothes in the future they will at least be required to wear body cameras.
    Location was a black neighborhood. They were looking for a known drug dealer that was not living there. But the woman that was killed by three plain clothes leos had two years ago may of had some relationship with the man that the leos were looking for.
    Upon hearing the door being broken down the woman and her boyfriend called 911 and the boyfriend opened fired striking one or maybe two of the officers in the leg. Fire was returned and the woman was killed.
    It seems that the boyfriend is being charged with attempted murder.

    Louisville police to change policies after Breonna Taylor killed by a cop in her home



    By Peter Martinez, Christopher Brito
    May 20, 2020 / 2:03 PM / CBS News
    The Louisville Metro Police Department will change its search warrant policy and officers will be required to wear body cameras in more situations after a black emergency medical worker was shot and killed by an officer in her home, city mayor Greg Fischer said Monday. Breonna Taylor, 26, was killed in March when police entered her home searching for illegal drugs.


    Taylor's family filed a lawsuit accusing the officers of wrongful death, excessive force and gross negligence. Her death sparked public outcry and calls for federal intervention, according to The Associated Press.
    LMPD officials said officers started shooting after Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, shot at them first. But the lawsuit alleges that police did not identify themselves and that Walker, a licensed gun owner, thought someone was breaking in. Neither Walker nor Taylor had a criminal history of drugs or violence, the suit said, and no drugs were found during the raid.
    ...........
    Mattingly was shot in the leg, police said. Walker has been charged with first degree assault and attempted murder of a police officer.
    .....................

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/breonna...-body-cameras/
    I think in a criminal trial if there is one that the LEOs will not be convicted on local shooting charges since they had a valid no knock warrant and fired in response to being fired at. There could be some federal charges also.
    Probably the surviving resident will beat the charges for shooting at the LEOs and the dead woman goes to the grave yard. The city, police dept, judge that signed the warrant, etc. all get sued and the LEOs involved will like suffer something negative in aftermath even if not convicted.
    Only the media and lawyers will win.

    On the flow diagram both parties likely had a legal right to shoot.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,768
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    On the flow diagram both parties likely had a legal right to shoot.
    Yup...which is why it is assinine to serve any sort of pre-planned felony warrant in plain clothes. And I don't care what justifications the so-called new breed can articulate...it is simply stupid. No knock warrants apply in extreme cases when life is in jeopardy, or the extreme situation requires it (terrorism, threat to life, destruction of evidence of the magnitude that those steps require it). And those will always be served by a fully kitted out team in marked uniforms.

    Prove me wrong guys
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    974
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Yup...which is why it is assinine to serve any sort of pre-planned felony warrant in plain clothes. And I don't care what justifications the so-called new breed can articulate...it is simply stupid. No knock warrants apply in extreme cases when life is in jeopardy, or the extreme situation requires it (terrorism, threat to life, destruction of evidence of the magnitude that those steps require it). And those will always be served by a fully kitted out team in marked uniforms.

    Prove me wrong guys
    I'd love to hear the counter argument.

    It seems idiotic that Louisville will continue having plain clothes officers serving no knock warrants as if body cameras mitigate the obvious issues.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,768
    The ONLY TIME I could justify taking direct action in plain clothes was as follows - and I analyzed this myself long ago since I worked in soft attire often in the Gang Unit and in Crime Impact (surveillance stake out stuff)

    * Always keep a raid jacket handy and don it if there is time when going proactive.
    * Act only if certain of the bad guy and his immediate prior actions (you know 100% he committed the robbery) and have not lost sight or contact.
    * You are in hot pursuit of a violent felony suspect and have not lost sight of him during the chase.
    * There is not practical time to wait for marked units or their presence would affect your mission.

    Any time there is time, and there is rarely events where there is not, waiting for marked units is possible. The only time this is not always available is with a dynamic vehicle assault when doing a stakeout thing, but that does not involve entering a home, and everyone knows their roles...inc the bad guy. If you have lost sight of the bad guy, things settle down, a perimeter is established and then marked units conduct a search. That is how we rolled back in the day and never ever had an event where we were misidentified...and we did alot of work.

    Again, dying to hear why it might be different today.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,645
    It isn't.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    183. And a wakeup.

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