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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Default Attack on the Trail

    The last discussion about the dog attack reminded me of an incident I read about a year or so ago on the Appalachian trail. For the sake of the discussion I am going to change a few details.

    You and at least one other person (youth or spouse/girlfriend) are on day 2 of a planned 7 day backpacking trip through either a national park or national forest in the US. You are at least 10-15 miles in either direction from a ranger station or major road. Earlier in the day you came across someone who appeared intoxicated and likely not all mentally there who had an aggressive dog. He bothered you going on about this being his trail but you passed on with him ranting and apparently heading in the opposite direction. You hiked on several miles since this encounter and have stopped and set up camp for the evening. As it is getting dark he appears in your campsite again. This time he is talking about pouring gasoline on your tent and burning you alive while you sleep. He leaves again. Then his dog runs back into the camp about 10 minutes later aggressively. You shoot the dog. Seconds later the guy runs in with a weapon (can be either a gun or a large knife). You shoot him dead. You have no cell service but do have a cell phone and solar charger. You have food and water to make it to the resupply point tomorrow.

    Please give details of what you would do then your statements to law enforcement when you are able to contact them which will be a minimum of several hours later to possibly an entire day later. Explain why you did what you did. I have some thoughts of my own I will share later and ask for critique from our LEO and retired LEO brothers.

    Go.
    Last edited by Huntindoc; 03-10-2020 at 07:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    So my POV while the espresso waits.

    1). I suspect very few people would take Greg, Brent and I to task on a remote trail. I also doubt that Shield Maiden and I would be taken to task either. The point is simple...look dangerous as f*ck and the unsavories...even crazy ones will leave you alone. Look like a soft domesticated group and you will be a target...look grey and you will be a target. Look like a group of killers out on holiday and you will be left alone.

    2). When you are in certain situations, and environments, you readiness to violence increases. I was far more ready to escalate when I was out with the family. Escalate could be to leave or to go to violence depending on environment. In a remote region with no cell service, at dusk, and no ability to E&E, any threat is taken at face value. Walk into my camp and threaten to burn my tents whle I am sleeping and steps will be taken to prevent such a thing from ever occurring.

    3). Your art of articulation and expression will make the difference.

    Me...I would likely not have waited for his dog to come back before escalating.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    5,873
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post

    1). I suspect very few people would take Greg, Brent and I to task on a remote trail. I also doubt that Shield Maiden and I would be taken to task either. The point is simple...look dangerous as f*ck and the unsavories...even crazy ones will leave you alone. Look like a soft domesticated group and you will be a target...look grey and you will be a target. Look like a group of killers out on holiday and you will be left alone.
    From the Untouchables: "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than just a kind word." Same goes with the opposite of a kind word. A hard look and a hard presence goes a long way.

    I also tend to carry a long gun on trail hikes. Funny how a 12 gauge tends to dissuade froggy behavior from crazies.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Texas

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    228
    I just ran it though the deadly force flowchart.... yep ,he gets shot

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    The attitude is not, "Oh my...I am out here in the middle of nowhere with a crazy guy"...it is "The stupid crazy guy is out here with me".
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    5,873
    Crazies will certainly prey on people they think are weak. But they aren't so much predators as they are scavengers.

    Scavengers tend to recognize when a predator notices them.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Texas

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Central Texas
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    Let me clarify: The only reason I put in that he left after threatening to burn your tent and later returned is that is what was reported actually happened.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Tidewater,VA
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    Still doesn't matter, deep woods, CRAZY has means,movtie and showed a will to use it,,,, DIRT NAP and then explain, if it takes hiking out , fine, the wolfs can clean up if it takes the Rangers to long
    All animals except man know that the ultimate of life is to enjoy it.

    Samuel Butler


    FACIEM TUAM, DOMINC, REQUIRAM

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    9,973
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    The attitude is not, "Oh my...I am out here in the middle of nowhere with a crazy guy"...it is "The stupid crazy guy is out here with me".
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say, random crazy dude is far less violent than I am.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    8,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    The attitude is not, "Oh my...I am out here in the middle of nowhere with a crazy guy"...it is "The stupid crazy guy is out here with me".
    What bad timing for the crazy guy.... Fuck him and his dog.... I will tell you this, I may have given him a chance on the first encounter, not the second. All behavior dependent, another reason to carry a small shotgun that I will leave unsaid....
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

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